Sexism in Dublin's music scene...discuss. (1 Viewer)

[RED(tape)MENACE]

I think the most interesting thing was what stunning said about the difference in mae/female ratio between here and the states. Any theories as to why it's different 'over there'?

 

[Hector Grey]

Originally posted by Pantone247
your mere presence in a room is enough to demean all the women therein

jayses. you half goths are all the same. just cos you're terrified of femalaility.

 

[north]

Very interesting discussion.

Someone above said : [I think the main reason there are less women on the scene is because it is traditionally/historically male dominated and it can be quite daunting to try and break into that and so it's difficult to break the mould ]

I think that's probably the main reason why there is such a lack of female involvement in the Dublin music scene. It's another symptom of the "closed shop" mentality (real or imagined) that has been discussed on this board before.


Another thing I have found from going to gigs and talking about music is that there's sometimes a perception that girl's don't "understand" music like guys do. And that you're only at the gig because your boyfriend dragged you along.
If you can't name off every person that played on every album by the band, every gig they ever played and everyone they ever collaborated with, then obviously you don't appreciate their music.

That's been my experience anyway, maybe I'm wrong.......

 

[sthar]

Originally posted by minka
needless to say, i only joined the cake for the groupies. any day now...

I remember a girl band singer (just not which one...) once famously saying/complaining that there are no male groupies.

 

[Ex-User (1146)]

ah now, girls *like* music in the same way they *like* shoes and make-up... and they just go to gigs to look at boys anyway... it's the stage thing ... what if he picks me out of the whole crowd ... swoon... i'm fucked like.

 

[Buzzo]

Originally posted by north
Very interesting discussion.

I think that's probably the main reason why there is such a lack of female involvement in the Dublin music scene. It's another symptom of the "closed shop" mentality (real or imagined) that has been discussed on this board before.


Another thing I have found from going to gigs and talking about music is that there's sometimes a perception that girl's don't "understand" music like guys do. And that you're only at the gig because your boyfriend dragged you along.
If you can't name off every person that played on every album by the band, every gig they ever played and everyone they ever collaborated with, then obviously you don't appreciate their music.

That's been my experience anyway, maybe I'm wrong.......

That's not exclusive to females, if it does exist at all.

I just don't think girls are making music as much as guys.
I do believe though, that women tend to have to prove themselves alot more in (rock) music, as in most things. THey're judged more harshly. People (men and women) make presumptions about girls getting on stage and what they're going to do, whether they're holding the guitar right, whether they drum like a girl, etc.
I drum like a girl, hold my guitar wrong, and when I try to write a song I only end up writing about make- up, sewing and kittens. The audience, which is predominantly male, just aren't into it

 

[Psychotic no 2]

Originally posted by north
Another thing I have found from going to gigs and talking about music is that there's sometimes a perception that girl's don't "understand" music like guys do.

I've sometimes found this. I don't know whether it's pressure I put on myself - you know the whole, must know everything the boys know thinking - or a feeling you get...I really don't know but there have been times when I've felt some people were using some very technical language just to make me feel inadequate. Hmmm. Yeah, the paranoia ebbs and flows.

 

[Hector Grey]

i think, in general, there isn't enough songs about cookery around. it's niche market, sure, but you have to start somewhere. plus it would be a great public forum for the sharing of information. umm? nutmeg, you say.

 

[Psychotic no 2]

Originally posted by aoifed
I drum like a girl, hold my guitar wrong, and when I try to write a song I only end up writing about make- up, sewing and kittens.

Heh. I've always wondered what is wrong with drumming like a girl if you are a girl. That's one of the main problems - women in rock are judged by male standards and if they can't do the whole drum-roll or wamalama solo they're automatically shite. Instead of saying well, you play this way, I play this way, he plays that way and she plays this way...diversity ya?

 

[Hector Grey]

male standards? that's funny. what if *shock* you're just no good?

i don't mean you, of course. i don't mean anyone, really... just.. oh look. a possum.

 

[Buzzo]

Originally posted by Psychotic no 2
Heh. I've always wondered what is wrong with drumming like a girl if you are a girl. That's one of the main problems - women in rock are judged by male standards and if they can't do the whole drum-roll or wamalama solo they're automatically shite. Instead of saying well, you play this way, I play this way, he plays that way and she plays this way...diversity ya?

Nah, girls can only drum along to the foxtrot or the noise of their hee-hiles on the pavement.

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by Psychotic no 2
[B...... And Speedy I really don't think if you brightened up the music a bit you'd get a more even crowd .

[/B]

You definitely would. Have you ever lived in a proper city for at least 2 months? Somewhere like New York, London or San Francisco? The diversity in their 'scene' brings both sexes together, and also all sorts of people regardless of their ethnicity. The Dublin scene half of the time can sound very samey and stagnant. Very white middle class Rock. Not very open minded. I think this is the social effect of Ireland being the whitest country in Europe for so long. We're only experiencing immigration in the last few years. It's the 21st century now come on! Give us ten years and we'll see more coloured people on stage with Irish people, playing more diverse music. We've lacked an experience which other major cities take for granted. Ever notice why people hardly move an inch during most gigs in Dublin? Its because the music isn't danceable. I'm not saying you HAVE to play stuff people can dance to, but fucks sake it wouldn't hurt if the whole fuckin scene lightened up half the time. And the bands started expressing themselves more on stage without being so self concious. Gimme some ACTION, MAN!!!

 

[minka]

If you can't name off every person that played on every album by the band, every gig they ever played and everyone they ever collaborated with, then obviously you don't appreciate their music.

i think i was rendered immune to being bothered by this kind of thing by having a music nerd dad. after umpteen years of "guess who's playing keyboards on this track? no, go on, guess. it's someone you know! and guess what other band he played with as well...", i have developed a fine ability to go "no, i don't know. and i'm not going to guess either. either tell me or leave me to listen to the record in peace."

 

[Ex-User (1146)]

i'm all for girls trying to make music, it's a deadly buzz like... okay, i'll stop being retarded. i have every throwing muses release on vinyl and i guard them with my life. i like le tigre, i think the music they make (not really into their whole schtick) is really really good, it's different and doesn't sound like it was made by boys which is really refreshing. that's what i love about throwing muses, there's just now way on earth a buch of fellas would come up with stuff like that. the differences are there to be celebrated, not judged. there's really shit bands and really good bands. bands tend to have more boys in them for whatever reasons but, speaking as a boy, if you will, i have never looked at a girl in a band and said to myself "she's holding that guitar wrong" or anything even close to that. if anything, the presence of a girl in a band gets me juices flowing because there's just so few of them... it's actually intrigueing... i've been in bands with girls before ... the null set, caroline played the bass in such an amazing way, she's one of the best players i've ever played with and a boy just wouldn't play a bass the way she did. but she'd be angry at me for saying any of this becuase she doesn't think there's a difference between boys and girls in this respect... but there is. and it's deadly. but there's tonnes more girls in bands in dublin now than there ever has been before... this discussion should have taken place around 2 years ago. to me, it's kinda redundant now...

phew.

 

[Keeror]

I think there is a level of sexism in Dublin underground music. But it's quite subtle, to the extent that the perpetrators don't even realise they are doing it, maybe, and so it 's difficult to pin down and give examples of. Or maybe that's just my paranoid fantasy.
Women don't seem to be asked to do things as much as the men are, and I don't think that's cos they don't volunteer themselves.
This would make underground music the equal of the rest of Irish society, with the exception of university undergraduate intakes - finally the women are taking over there.

There's also a neglected ageism problem. How many gigs can under 18s go to see? Not many. No wonder all the goth teens look so miserable in Temple Bar. You would too if you'd never gotten into a Redneck Manifesto gig.

 

[Keeror]

Originally posted by Hector Grey
i think, in general, there isn't enough songs about cookery around. it's niche market, sure, but you have to start somewhere. plus it would be a great public forum for the sharing of information. umm? nutmeg, you say.

What has become of Recipes - the Jimmy Cake death metal/grindcore offshoot, featuring songs about "the darker side of food"?

 

[Hector Grey]

Originally posted by hapi
i'm all for girls trying to make music, it's a deadly buzz like... okay, i'll stop being retarded. i have every throwing muses release on vinyl and i guard them with my life. i like le tigre, i think the music they make (not really into their whole schtick) is really really good, it's different and doesn't sound like it was made by boys which is really refreshing. that's what i love about throwing muses, there's just now way on earth a buch of fellas would come up with stuff like that. the differences are there to be celebrated, not judged. there's really shit bands and really good bands. bands tend to have more boys in them for whatever reasons but, speaking as a boy, if you will, i have never looked at a girl in a band and said to myself "she's holding that guitar wrong" or anything even close to that. if anything, the presence of a girl in a band gets me juices flowing because there's just so few of them... it's actually intrigueing... i've been in bands with girls before ... the null set, caroline played the bass in such an amazing way, she's one of the best players i've ever played with and a boy just wouldn't play a bass the way she did. but she'd be angry at me for saying any of this becuase she doesn't think there's a difference between boys and girls in this respect... but there is. and it's deadly. but there's tonnes more girls in bands in dublin now than there ever has been before... this discussion should have taken place around 2 years ago. to me, it's kinda redundant now...

phew.

you drum like a gerril buh. like fatima whitbread or something.

 

[kstop]

Originally posted by Hector Grey
i think, in general, there isn't enough songs about cookery around. it's niche market, sure, but you have to start somewhere. plus it would be a great public forum for the sharing of information. umm? nutmeg, you say.

But then all the bands that write songs about cooking will have to contribute stories to a book about sex and dancing:

"Cunnilingus: The Redneck Manifesto",
"The Charleston: Fugazi" etc.

Also, this world will be made of anti-matter.

 

[madouva]

uh oh

...here it comes...

...duck...

 

[Speed Racer]

Anyone saying girls can't play guitar as good as guys is so wrong. Look at Joni Mitchell, she was amazing in her day. Invented almost 100 new tunings! And recently I saw Rodrigo y Gabriela and was amazed by her playing. She's one on the best guitarists I've ever scene! I go into a trance watching her fingers flying around.