Releasing Music Yourself -versus- Not Unless We Get a Deal (1 Viewer)

[Pantone247]

I didn't mean to imply chart success = the only success.

What's the goal when releasing music? Having it widely heard, giving your band better opportunities to play better gigs, taking you a step closer to be able to make enough money out of music to not have a day job and focus on making better music?

I think most people here would say "no"

It's to have fun, make friends, express something for yourself, if you can make your taxi fare home deadly, if you get some press and break even on a release better again... some people might have higher aspirations, but I think they also realise how much work is in there for them too. Reality is it's hard, neigh impossibly to make a living out of music in Ireland at present

I could give a number of examples of bands who've released with these aims and failed to achieve any of them. That is failure.

or is it a lack or realistic goals?

If I ran a marathon tomorrow and didn't win is that failure?

It'd be harsh to name them incase any of them read Thumped but I will PM them to you if you wish. I'm just making a point.

Do I want you to rat out some fellow posters you consider "failures" even though you acknowledge it'd be a "harsh" thing to do?

um, yeah okay!

 

[Vinnie]

Bad decisions are bad decisions in any industry. There are no absolutes and every band should judge the risk involved on their own merits.

Well if I'm to give factual scenarios that means naming and shaming young bands who've given it a shot and are now broke.

 

[egg_]

If your little brother started a band ...

I'd say something like this:

You could be forgiven for thinking that any rock band with a spark of talent will, within 6 months of getting together, sign a 7-figure deal, record an album in Abbey Road and crash into the charts at number 8.

In real life, that's not how things are, not for most of us. 'Us' being the zillions of bands who no-one has ever heard of. You know - the people who stick up photocopied posters in your local café who you see struggling to get a Marshall amp into a 2-door Ford Fiesta at closing time, who are probably playing to no-one at all right now in some shithole near you. We're the peasants of rock'n'roll, sometimes glamourously referred to as 'the underground', but you'd need to look very hard to find any glamour in what we do.

So when we make a record, its 'making of' story is not the one you usually hear on the radio. Most of our recording for this album took place in an empty office space that we lined with fibreglass and sacking to absorb the sound. Every month we had to go to the landlord and say "We're leaving, we can't pay the rent anymore". Lucky for us no-one else wanted the place, so he'd always reduce it to something we could pay ... a negotiating technique we call Success Through Despair®. It came in handy again when the office place got sold and we needed cheap studio time - someday we're gonna write a book on it. We had to get John's parts done first because he had a baby on the way, so he spent weekends travelling back and forth from his home on the other side of the country to record. Stephen broke his hand just as we were due to record drums, and when it healed myself and Niamh (my wife) cooked him breakfast, lunch and dinner every day to make sure he wouldn't only eat Mars Bars and zone out at 3pm. Most of the equipment we used was borrowed, and we had to borrow it again and again to re-do stuff we had done wrong the first (or second, or third, or whatever-th) time. And eventually we had borrow money too so we could pay to get it all mixed and mastered.

And, oh yeah, it took almost two years to do. And by the time we even started work on it, we'd been together as a band for, well, more-or-less forever. Not that none of it was fun, but by Christ the rock'n'roll lifestyle in the real world is not for the faint-hearted, and there is no pot of gold at the end ... but this album was made not because we thought we'd enjoy making it - we just had an itch that had to be scratched.

 

[Pantone247]

Waterfall sent me that list of failures, no big surprises here really...

1. Vinnie
2. Sankybus
3. Jane (though I'll argue this point, her last spoken word album was classic)
4. Pantone247
5. Vinnie
6. Vinnie
7. Billy Gannon

 

[Mitchum]

The intrinsic value of a release is not the money it generates. And creating a fictional scenario that entirely supports your argument is lazy rhetoric.

Beautifully succint!

 

[aoboa]

Putting out a record yourself is a complete pain in the ass and a financial 'black hole'. Everyone in a band should do it once just to experience the joys of dealing with manufacturing, printing and distribution.

 

[snakybus]

In fairness to Waterfall, there are many bands who have put a lot of money into what might be called "DIY releases", in the sense that they do actually do it themselves, but are not in the DIY spirit and are really pitches for rock stardom or whatever the dream is. I've seen some of these, and often a lot of money is put into these things. What can you say - maybe they'll learn a lesson and not do it again. If I were parent/guarantor on a loan for these kids, I'd be even more foolish as I should be old and wise enough to realise it's a bad idea. However, there are also many bands in Ireland who understand the spirit of DIY (to varying degrees - it can take years to really take on board) and have that attitude with respect to how their releases sell. I've released an album for under 100 euro. Of course, nearly nobody bought it. But I made my money back! (It's all about the margins)

 

[Vinnie]

In your face Sankybus, Jane, Pantone, Vinnie, Vinnie & Billy!!!

Number 1 in the failure charts and it only cost me 8 grand.

Waterfall sent me that list of failures, no big surprises here really...

1. Vinnie
2. Sankybus
3. Jane (though I'll argue this point, her last spoken word album was classic)
4. Pantone247
5. Vinnie
6. Vinnie
7. Billy Gannon

 

[waterfall]

To answer everyone's question about the 8k

5 days recording single and b sides plus cost of mastering = 2k

2 euro a piece rough cost of pressing/packing proper single quality CDs = 4k

Whelans, Roisin Dubh, Cypres Ave, Spirit Store = at least 2k for transport, venue booking, promotion, posters etc


Sure, you wouldn't need 8k if you recorded in your room, launched it in Road Recs and gigged outside on the street.

Look seriously, there's bands out there spending this much and getting nowhere. That's all I'm saying.

 

[waterfall]

Waterfall sent me that list of failures, no big surprises here really...

1. Vinnie
2. Sankybus
3. Jane (though I'll argue this point, her last spoken word album was classic)
4. Pantone247
5. Vinnie
6. Vinnie
7. Billy Gannon

obv this is untrue

 

[Pantone247]

In your face Sankybus, Jane, Pantone, Vinnie, Vinnie & Billy!!!

Number 1 in the failure charts and it only cost me 8 grand.

I suspect some chart fixing...

 

[billygannon]

It doesn't cost 8 grand to release an EP

Well, firstly you'd €1,000 to hire a strategy consultant to identify the aims and objectives of your band, identify your core market and to improve team cohesion.

Then you'd need another €1,000 to develop your online image by improving your MySpace and Bebo accounts.

You'd need approximately €2,000 to develop your hair and clothing images.

Then you'd need maybe €2,000 for operational costs (CD pressing etc.).

Then you'd need to hire someone for, say, a month to send out good vibes on Internet Message Boards such as Thumped.com. That would cost about €1,000.

And finally you need maybe €1,000 on promotional costs such as buying in e-mail listings, making posters and buying drinks in Whelans for members of more popular bands.

It adds up you know!

 

[waterfall]

Putting out a record yourself is a complete pain in the ass and a financial 'black hole'. Everyone in a band should do it once just to experience the joys of dealing with manufacturing, printing and distribution.

thanks

 

[MDR]

If you're 18 it's probably cheaper to release albums than it is to insure your car for a year.

If you want to try for a record deal go for it. Try talking to people who already have them and find out how much they earn - probably less than a trainee barber.

 

[snakybus]

It's to have fun, make friends, express something for yourself, if you can make your taxi fare home deadly, if you get some press and break even on a release better again... some people might have higher aspirations, but I think they also realise how much work is in there for them too.

I would echo this to an extent - but at the same time I think it's healthy to have some ambition and do more than just make your taxi fare home (within reason, obviously). Playing to just a few friends can get boring. But if the music's good, it'll be heard one way or the other so long as you work hard.

Reality is it's hard, neigh impossibly to make a living out of music in Ireland at present

 

[waterfall]

Jesus, italkshite was right, you're in the wrong place alltogether.

bollox

as usual, i put up a thread which is initially responded to by someone like you or that ITS jerk "omg get awff thumped your rewning it u spa!!1"

and then for the most part its banter and debate by everybody else which is what i reckon im in the right place for.

disagree if you like. don't post pointless shit like above.

 

[billygannon]

If you want to try for a record deal go for it. Try talking to people who already have them and find out how much they earn - probably less than a trainee barber.

Are you saying that the best advice to give to an 18-yeard-old thinking of getting a loan to release an album would be to set up a barber-shop quartet?

Frankly, there is a distinct lack of young barber-shop quartets in the Greater Dublin and Leinster region.

 

[Pantone247]

SKERRIES
Skerries Chordbusters Barbershop Group are looking for tenors and baritones. If interested, please ring 849xxxxx.

 

[piratio]

It's so nice to see young bucks come in a sweep you fucks off your feet! Waterfall some good ideas about 'the business' but totally ignoring the rest really... If you're gonna be the next big thing, then just wait your turn but if all you wanna be is 'big', then all the money and deals in the world won't do shit for you in terms of your talent, authenticity and other rock n roll shit. you are or you are not. Most people, probably including you, Waterfall, can name a great album that was made for nothing or lo-fi or whvr... don't worry about it!

 

[waterfall]

If you're 18 it's probably cheaper to release albums than it is to insure your car for a year.

If you want to try for a record deal go for it. Try talking to people who already have them and find out how much they earn - probably less than a trainee barber.

agreed but prob more than those doing it without a deal?

those who are trainee barbers by day and unsigned musicians at night have the right idea