pride vs rte (1 Viewer)

rettucs

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I have no idea if actual nazi's are hijacking well-evidenced conflicts in human rights discourse at present, and quite frankly, that point actually distracts from the issue/s. Nazi's and whatever related ilk will always do what they do - and that is something to fight against always, but it doesn't negate the fact that the actual issues at hand also need to be addressed.
they are. I could start posting screenshot examples here, but its monday morning, and I don't want to ruin the start of everyones week.

And while I agree with your final point, quoted above, I think it will be near impossible to address these issues until those nazis are silenced. And I'd say the same for any issue those people have latched onto. Their whole modus operandi is to shout and shout until all the coherent and sensible arguments disappear from view.

And if sport, which I maintain is not the main issue for trans people, gives them a platform to shout and keep shouting, I fear that will give their 'cause' momentum, and will end up causing further harm to trans people.
 

nuke terrorist

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this. The argument is so nuanced. Of course there are compelling arguments for not allowing trans athletes to compete, on the basis of fairness (in a sporting context), but imposing some blanket rule for all can't ever work.

People claiming I was dismissing sport as being a nonsense, thats not what I was saying, but I think you know that. In the context of the overall struggle trans people face, its a small part and there are more important things to focus energies on. Think what you want of sport overall, or the important of the right of women to compete and participate (I spent 10 years coaching women's sport and fighting for many of those rights), but again, in the context of this debate, there are more important things to focus on.
No offence meant scutter.
I don't how transwomen will be allowed compete the way things are going. even the South African expert that you mentioned said male puberty made an irreversible difference in transwomen.

what I was focusing on was that transwomen who thought they had a chance to compete in women's sport had that suddenly taken away from them and that was the worst outcome IMO.

there's a few possible scenarios:
- just allow transwomen to compete in women's sports.
- push decisions further down the track, leaving more transwomen in limbo and eventually disappointed.
- case by case basis (no guarantees for anyone with that)
- new competition category (nobody wants that).

if this debate on transwomen in sport is not really going anywhere on thumped, maybe wrap it up and move on to bigger issues. Most trans people I've listened to have little or no interest in sport (some cyclists aside) so it is not the big issue in trans rights as scutter said.
 

rettucs

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No offence meant scutter.
I don't how transwomen will be allowed compete the way things are going. even the South African expert that you mentioned said male puberty made an irreversible difference in transwomen.

what I was focusing on was that transwomen who thought they had a chance to compete in women's sport had that suddenly taken away from them and that was the worst outcome IMO.

there's a few possible scenarios:
- just allow transwomen to compete in women's sports.
- push decisions further down the track, leaving more transwomen in limbo and eventually disappointed.
- case by case basis (no guarantees for anyone with that)
- new competition category (nobody wants that).

if this debate on transwomen in sport is not really going anywhere on thumped, maybe wrap it up and move on to bigger issues. Most trans people I've listened to have little or no interest in sport (some cyclists aside) so it is not the big issue in trans rights as scutter said.
agreed, but to clarify, I'm agreeing with a point you made earlier. If a general rule was imposed it would wrongfully exclude athletes such as Caster Semanya, and that cannot be allowed to happen.
 

YoungHearts

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they are. I could start posting screenshot examples here, but its monday morning, and I don't want to ruin the start of everyones week.

And while I agree with your final point, quoted above, I think it will be near impossible to address these issues until those nazis are silenced. And I'd say the same for any issue those people have latched onto. Their whole modus operandi is to shout and shout until all the coherent and sensible arguments disappear from view.

And if sport, which I maintain is not the main issue for trans people, gives them a platform to shout and keep shouting, I fear that will give their 'cause' momentum, and will end up causing further harm to trans people.

I think we will have to disagree on this - I think we can attend to many issues at the same time, as otherwise nothing would get done, or more damage will be done in that strange space that has opened up, but then again, I am the ultimate multi-tasker!

I also see evidence of lots of people online, who are not nazis, shouting at each other incoherently - but posing as progressive, and I want no part of it. I prefer to come at things from a research perspective, and a rational one, and I always have. I have never expected the world to bend to my own particular view of it (and how could it possibly, for anyone? What a weird world that would be!) - but I do believe in working towards a society that is truly fair, balanced and equitable, while acknowledging our differences. Because there are differences.

And I also acknowledge that we all come at subjects with our own perspectives - I have always tried to look at things in a balanced and compassionate way (that's why I was drawn to Human Rights Law) - but on some of these issues there are fundamentals in play, and there are conflicts of rights, and that is what policy makers and legislators (and others) are trying to work out. I am someone who is advocating for girls and women's rights and dignity - I believe in that for all (obviously) - but that would be my main focus - as other groups have theirs, and are advocating as such.

I am not sure I have too much more to write/say on this subject on this forum, as I think my position is clear, but I have welcomed the civil back and forth with people, it's only ever good to have that. I think that is part of what is lacking in the world at present. Hopefully it will make a return on a more general level. Wishing you all a calm Monday morning!
 

Unicron

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I see The Burkes of Castlebar have a son who is a teacher at Wilson's Hospital School and he's currently on administrative leave because the parents of a student requested that their non-binary child be referred to with they/them pronouns and the teacher refused and also harassed and harangued other staff at a school function.
 

moose

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Deadmanposting

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The thing about this Burke case is it's a single kid in there - and he's pulling all this extra attention on the situation by showing up when he's suspended

Some shower of pricks that family
 

Anthony

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