nurses and midwives work to rule. what do you think? (1 Viewer)

[Goff]

Not sure what the situation is with teachers in Ireland. I do know in the UK they're criminally overworked and underpaid.

Sorry...I thought we were talking about the Irish situation? Ok, I'll revise what I said about the education system and doctors if we're talking about the Brit system so.

Over there, it's not all about family.

How long have you been living there? FFS!

Ye turned injun.

 

[egg_]

And I think you'll earn 60K a year egg_.

Doubt it dude, at least not until inflation means 60K is worth a lot less. The future for web programming in Ireland is looking fairly bleak. If I could get a programming job in the civil service within half an hour of where I live I'd be in like a shot

 

[Goff]

I personally can't wait for the recession to hit.

Then maybe all the fuckers who keep going on about how all Civil Servants make a fortune will be justified in their comments.

And strange as it may seem, most Civil Servants are not even on the Industrial Average. So, go figure.

 

[P. Littbarski]

And strange as it may seem, most Civil Servants are not even on the Industrial Average. So, go figure.

are there any figures, sources to back this up ?

 

[billygannon]

Sorry...I thought we were talking about the Irish situation? Ok, I'll revise what I said about the education system and doctors if we're talking about the Brit system so.

Over there, it's not all about family.

How long have you been living there? FFS!

Ye turned injun.

Look.. .your beef with doctors is just stupid.
You're making a claim that the majority of doctors simply go in to the profession because the status the job has or because it's been a family tradition.

This is clearly wrong. Because a doctor has familial connections with the medical profession doesn't mean that the doctor is doing it because they feel obliged to. It also doesn't mean they're doing it to maintain a status quo.
To become a doctor, there is an intense and lengthy training period involved. If the person is not committed to the profession in some way or other, than they would be weeded out during the training years.
The vast majority of doctors enter the profession because they want to help people in some way. Just because many of them have come from a priviledged background does not mean their motives are decent.

I can't say that every doctor is decent and well-meaning. There are many who are corrupt. But making out that doctors are all part of an old-boys club who do bugger all is just like saying every civil servant is lazy.

I can accept that it is harder for a person from an underpriviledged background to become a doctor. This is not because the profession itself is barring them from becoming one.
It's because of several other reasons - familiies having to have the income to support someone training to be a doctor; the high points for Medicine courses in college etc.

As for teachers... I can only speak from the UK perspective. I know the HDip in Teaching isn't as hard as the English version, so maybe teachers have it better in Ireland.
That said, they do play a vital role in society. And in my eyes, I believe they should be rewarded for doing so. Same goes for nurses.

 

[jane]

are there any figures, sources to back this up ?

Here are some: http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/circ462006cpsu.rev.pdf

Easy enough to look up civil service pay scales. I was always under the impression that the benefits to civil service are that it's a good, permanent job, but that you wouldn't make lots of money. At the very top of the scales, you'd be comfortable enough, but you still wouldn't come close to what most private sector pay scales are like.

 

[Unicron]

we are saints though.

Cept for the ones who are training my sister at the minute. Bunch of bitches according to her.

What is a nurses typical working week anyways? My cousin is a nurse I seem to remember her saying she used to do 3 12 hour shifts a week when she was on the wards.

 

[MDR]

I think the average public sector pay packet is above that of the average industrial wage, but the civil service pay packet is not that different to the private sector one for most people as far as I know. Public service pay includes gardai, prison officers etc. so the overtime rate tends to distort the basic pay levels.

I know someone who works for one of the large consultancy firms and the grades there, and the pay that goes with them, are very similar to those that operate in the civil service.

 

[therealjohnny]

Cept for the ones who are training my sister at the minute. Bunch of bitches according to her.
.

The ones that work with my girlfriend are a lazy shower of backstabbing bitches too

but.. (sensing this is going against the tone)..I'm sure they're the minority

 

[Goff]

the high points for Medicine courses in college etc.

No. My beef with doctors is not stupid.

But that statement you just made is.

Poor people don't get high points. Brilliant.

 

[Goff]

Here are some: http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/circ462006cpsu.rev.pdf

Easy enough to look up civil service pay scales. I was always under the impression that the benefits to civil service are that it's a good, permanent job, but that you wouldn't make lots of money. At the very top of the scales, you'd be comfortable enough, but you still wouldn't come close to what most private sector pay scales are like.

That's it right there.

In a nutshell.

The Service is a good job in many ways. But don't think you're going to be getting rich any time soon.

I know many Civil Servants who are on Family Income Supplement.

That should be a crime.

 

[billygannon]

No. My beef with doctors is not stupid.

But that statement you just made is.

Poor people don't get high points. Brilliant.

No. As you're aware students living in underprivileged areas in Ireland are less likely to obtain high points in the Leaving Cert. This is not because of they are less intelligent or not as hard working.

Take one student from, say, Cabra and another student from Foxrock. They both want to become doctors. The kid in Cabra comes from a family who are living off the minimum wage. The kid in Foxrock comes from a family who are wealthy.
Now... let's say both of them don't obtain the points to get Medicine in the Leaving Cert. It is more difficult for the parents of the kid from Cabra to pay for a repeat and help support the kid throughout their medical training.
It is easier for family of the kid from Foxrock to do this.

Now... this does not mean the kid from Foxrock is a money-grabbing old boy. It's not the medical profession that has set up this scenario preventing the kid from Cabra becoming a doctor. It's to do with the general education system in place.

And as for bus drivers saving more lives than doctors. Well, when you have your heart attack, get the 19A and I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[P. Littbarski]

Here are some: http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/circulars/circ462006cpsu.rev.pdf

Easy enough to look up civil service pay scales. I was always under the impression that the benefits to civil service are that it's a good, permanent job, but that you wouldn't make lots of money. At the very top of the scales, you'd be comfortable enough, but you still wouldn't come close to what most private sector pay scales are like.

they're pretty much in line with the average industrial wage though right, if you believe the figures that the average wage is approx. 30,000 a year.

i mean, no one starts out in most professions making above average wages...everyone has to start out at the lower end of the scale.

 

[jane]

they're pretty much in line with the average industrial wage though right, if you believe the figures that the average wage is approx. 30,000 a year.

i mean, no one starts out in most professions making above average wages...everyone has to start out at the lower end of the scale.

I was just posting the figures, not making any real argument, except that civil servants don't make big piles of money.

It does, however, seem that for public and civil jobs, there's a top end that doesn't necessarily exist in the private sector. That's not to say that everyone in the private sector actually reaches the top of their salary scale, or makes buckets, just that in a civil service job, you take it because it's a good job and it's both flexible and permanent, but you can't really aspire to wealth in the way a private sector worker can. That's all. And I'm just speaking in a very general sense here about pay scales.

 

[Goff]

Re Billy:

C'mere. That is an argument with makey uppy statistics.

Here's something that isn't made up.

And listen...carefully now.

I hate doctors. All of them. Which part of that statement do you find hard to accept? It's true. It doesn't have to be rational (yet it is). And it is my choice.

You won't change my mind with made up foxrock v Cabra shite.

There's an ideal and there's reality.

 

[Goff]

they're pretty much in line with the average industrial wage though right, if you believe the figures that the average wage is approx. 30,000 a year.

i mean, no one starts out in most professions making above average wages...everyone has to start out at the lower end of the scale.

I see it's started already and the recession hasn't hit yet.

Yay!

(I really am looking forward to all this - almost makes all the years on shitty pay worth it).

 

[P. Littbarski]

I see it's started already and the recession hasn't hit yet.

Yay!

(I really am looking forward to all this - almost makes all the years on shitty pay worth it).

i'm not sure what you mean ? what has started ?

 

[MDR]

I think that if you aspire to be wealthy, you have to start your own business; working for other people, in the public or private sector, won't make you wealthy.

(Exception: Pat Kenny is the highest paid public servant in the country - earns roughly four times what the Taoiseach gets.)

 

[egg_]

Jane - those are salaries for Clerical Officers, and as far as I'm aware you reach the top of those scales just by staying in the job and getting your yearly increments. If you get promoted you go onto a different scale - there's different scales for different grades. I don't know how you go about getting promoted - my da's been working for the dept. of agriculture for 40+ years and he's still on the clerical scale, so it's not a given, but I would guess that going about getting promoted in the service is similar to climbing the ladder in the private sector

 

[P. Littbarski]

I was just posting the figures, not making any real argument, except that civil servants don't make big piles of money.

It does, however, seem that for public and civil jobs, there's a top end that doesn't necessarily exist in the private sector. That's not to say that everyone in the private sector actually reaches the top of their salary scale, or makes buckets, just that in a civil service job, you take it because it's a good job and it's both flexible and permanent, but you can't really aspire to wealth in the way a private sector worker can. That's all. And I'm just speaking in a very general sense here about pay scales.

cheers for posting up the figures...i'm not really arguing either

I just thought the comment (not made by yourself) that 'most Civil Servants are not even on the Industrial Average' was a bit flippant, and the figures you posted don't really back that argument.