new liverpool thread - everyone loves them (1 Viewer)

[washingcattle]

I spat tea on my keyboard because of the Rooney comment. Bet he's scab enough to go for it too.

 

[I Bleed Black]

You could try to make Rooney the most unpopular man in the history of the North-West of England.



I'm not sure it'll cost that much to get rid of Roy, doesn't he always just sign a year to year deal?

He has a three year deal, if things continue on the way they are he'll be gone by january and to be honest even if we improve a bit but it still looks like he'll go in the summer I don't see the point of giving him a wad of cash in jan. Also anyone that thinks he doing his best the best he can with a poor squad needs to take a look at his very poor tactics, his bullshit post match interviews (more or less put all the blame on the players yesterday) and the fact that he got the job due to his reputation for getting the most from a limited group of players which he obviously is not achieving currently at Liverpool. I feel like my worst fears when he was appointed have been realised and the man is simply out of his depth. I hope i'm wrong and things improve over the next couple of months but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Hector Grey]

You could try to make Rooney the most unpopular man in the history of the North-West of England.



I'm not sure it'll cost that much to get rid of Roy, doesn't he always just sign a year to year deal?

s'funny i was just laughing at the prospect of it..rooney at liverpool. god, it would be great. i'd be laughing forever.

as for roy, well, i think he's in til 2012, but apart from that, they'd have to pay the new guy and compensate his club, etc etc. they'd need a top drawer dude lined up, otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[I Bleed Black]

they'd need a top drawer dude lined up, otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.

Guardiola is out of contract next june and has stated his desire to coach abroad sooner rather than later. That's the calibre of manager we should be after.

 

[Hector Grey]

Guardiola is out of contract next june and has stated his desire to coach abroad sooner rather than later. That's the calibre of manager we should be after.

speaks english too. has a swagger about him. there's a suggestion, however, that me or you would have won all that tin with those players at our disposal. but he's got something alright. nobody talks about frank rijkaard any more, even though he achieved the same kind of thing.... anyway i don't get how roy is so out of his depth, it's the premier league, he's done it before. i hoped for so much more.

missing the masch like crazy, the cunt.

 

[I Bleed Black]

speaks english too. has a swagger about him. there's a suggestion, however, that me or you would have won all that tin with those players at our disposal. but he's got something alright. nobody talks about frank rijkaard any more, even though he achieved the same kind of thing.... anyway i don't get how roy is so out of his depth, it's the premier league, he's done it before. i hoped for so much more.

missing the masch like crazy, the cunt.

I was making the case for Rijkaard here back in june or july, he would suit us down to the ground I think, you'd have the think the football would improve an awful lot too.

 

[Unicron]

Guardiola is out of contract next june and has stated his desire to coach abroad sooner rather than later. That's the calibre of manager we should be after.

Graham Hunter reckons he's the guy that'll replace Wenger at the Emirates.

 

[Cormcolash]

Signing Rooney would be one of the greatest comedy signings of all time, it would be utterly fucking hilarious!

 

[coast to coast]

Well it's a different story now, If (big if) club is being run properly managers that would have previously told Liverpool to fuck off might be interested again. No one wanted the job 6 months ago by January there might be a queue to get in. Still think Roy is doing the best he can with the absolute shite at his disposal though. January will be vital. 2 proven midfielders in and Lucas, Rodreguez even Paulsen out to put some money in the bank or else you're heading for the bottom half.

I know you're a blue but you're demented if you think "Roy is doing the best he can with the absolute shite at his disposal." Are you fucking mental? I mean seriously are you fucking mental.

Here's three things for starters:
He's fucked off Agger cos he doesn't like centrebacks who play from the back.
He's fucked off Aquilani as soon as he actually got fit. Regardless of how mental a buy he was in the first place, he still decided to give away a £20m for free.
He is completely unable to get anything out of Torres at all. We all know Torres picked up a load of injuries throughout the last two years, but he still scored goals all the time. Roy's set up barely gets the ball to him. Torres may well be in the worst run of form in his career - he's still a phenomenal striker. And Hodgson has absolutely no way of tapping those goals.

Forget about bad signings - its for the most part irrelevant to Liverpool's problem. There are always better players around the corner at the next club, at the next transfer window, linked in the next gossip column. Football squads aren't just a case of adding up the how good you think all the players are - queue "oh look Lucas is shit, Ngog is shit, Glen Johnson is expensive and shit, look at all the shit Rafa left" - its how they work together and how you get out of them what they are able to produce. Its a team game - its about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. (Excuse me if I'm being ridiculously condescending here).

As Blackpool have shown in every game, football so fucking difficult a game that a squad assembled for £3m when organised and motivated can take on one assembled for £200m. The fact that they lost is somewhat irrelevant (they were skanked anyway) in that they gave a shit and they played with the hearts and their brains. Committment is free. Teamwork is free. Pride is free.

Roy Hodgson's Liverpool teams have played neither with their hearts nor their brains. They are not organised and they are not motivated. He hasn't come within a country mile of reaching the limitations of this squad yet. Unless he's testing the limit of how shit he can make them.

He's a tactical dinosaur who revels in his insistence on his old methods, which have only ever worked with plucky underdogs with far lower expectations. Liverpool F.C. expects to win every game it plays and our fans certainly expect us to play with our heart and our head. Thats the way it is. Everton F.C. doesn't expect to win every game and thats why people think Moyes is doing a good job despite the fact that he's won nothing other than plaudits. Expectations are totally different. Call us arseholes if you want, but thats the way it is.

Liverpool may have, if we buy into this rating squads game, the 6th or 7th (or 8th or 9th) best squad in the league but we are currently without doubt or exaggeration the worst team in the league. As Danny Murphy said during the week - every ship has a captain, and our one is steering blindly onto the rocks.

Thats not even to start with the other things Liverpool fans expect from our manager such 1. sticking up for Fernando Torres
2. not being all pally pally with Mr. Ferguson
3. not saying after a Birmingham game that we didn't expect to win and so on
4. criticising the fans for protesting against the malignant owners

And thats not even bringing up the rather gruesome fact that this isn't just a freakish set of circumstances, Hodgson has done this before at Blackburn. And we all know where they ended up - relegated.

I'll admit to getting this completely wrong. I'm not surprised Rafa had to go much as I love the guy, because his position at the club had become untenable given his relationship with the board, the owners and the appaling season just gone. I thought Hodgson would actually be that "safe pair of hands" - and god knows, I'm willing to be optimistic about practically every plonker thats signed for our club over the last ten years (with the exception of Philipp Degen, I always hated him from the getgo) but Hodgson has got to go and the sooner the better.

I can honestly say, I have no idea where the next win is coming from. I'm fairly confident that in the next few weeks we'll lose to Napoli away, won't beat Blackburn at home (all the more galling considering that thundering cunt who manages them, Fergies bastard child 9th in line to the thrown grovelling around for kudos) probably get outplayed and most likely beaten by a rapidly improving Bolton under Coyle team before Chelsea probably put Hodgson out his misery.

I've certainly given up on qualifying for Europe this season because by the time he's sacked the damage will be too severe. I'm just hoping whoever they do hire next is hungry, talented and willing to make tough decisions for long term good (e.g. dropping Carragher, selling whoever). My main hope is that we'll have a team fans can be proud of even if they are the 6/7/8th best team in the league by the end of the season. They'll probably finish below that - thats not a big deal as long some of those other things come true.

 

[washingcattle]

He'd surely have a record for the most burgaled gaf of all time.

 

[washingcattle]

I really think you are mental. Rafa had basically the same bunch of players and you were all blaming him it was "Rafa's lost the players support" Hodgeson has them now and it's his fault. What do these players want? What would apese them ? Blackpool have a great bunch of players who want to fucking play in the premiership, If they were being managed by a cardboard cut out of Stan they'd still give 100%. Has it crossed your mind that the common denominator here is a sub par squad who don't give a fuck about anything but the weekly wage and even if Bill fucking Shankly rose from the grave he couldn't do fuck all with them?

Look at Fulham under Hodgeson; organised, commited and good to watch. Change of manager and it's the same story. Your lot were shit and are still shit.

Everton F.C. doesn't expect to win every game and thats why people think Moyes is doing a good job despite the fact that he's won nothing other than plaudits. Expectations are totally different. Call us arseholes if you want, but thats the way it is.

in case you hadn't noticed the 80s are over. Climb down from your ivory tower there and play in the mud with the rest of us you headcase. That expectation should have died some time during the last 2 decades when you didn't win a single title. In fact that expectation is going to be the very thing that strangles the life out of your club as you sack manager after manger in a quest to get a bunch of sub par fools to actually play. Hodgeson probably will go because of the new owners, that's natural but what then ? What happens when you have a big name at the helm and he can't turn it around either ? Sack him, send in the next one ? That will just leaves clubs in ruins.

Liverpool may have, if we buy into this rating squads game, the 6th or 7th (or 8th or 9th) best squad in the league

really ? you believe that ? 6th best ? where's the steel in midfield ? where are the wingers ? where are the full backs ? 9th best is closer to the truth. Hodgeson inherited a mid-table squad and I'm sure that's were it will be in January. Few good signings here and there, even out the holes and you'll be up in the top half in no time. Deep down you know this too, most likely this is the biggest frustration. Bottom line you can sack a dozen managers but you can't sack the players so demand changes all you like or start an "are Liverpool going to get relegated " thread. It worked for Spurs. I'm not saying Woy is fantastic, he's not, but really you should be looking at what he has to work with and expecting a lot less.

Oh and to reiterate a point I've made before I don't want to see Liverpool in the shits like this, it makes it more interesting when you're up at the top knocking lumps out of the scum and Chelsea. Fuck it I even congratulated you on getting those Yanks out.

 

[coast to coast]

Hodgeson inherited a mid-table squad and I'm sure that's were it will be in January. Few good signings here and there, even out the holes and you'll be up in the top half in no time. Deep down you know this too, most likely this is the biggest frustration.

The biggest frustration isn't a shit squad - I'd probably get to that frustration is the manager was getting anything near a good performance out of them and it was still coming up short. The biggest frustration is all the things I outlined in my post about the way we play - the lack of committment from the players and manager, the lack of tactical nous and organisation. Like I said, legitimately the worst team in the league at the moment.

I never once complained in that post about the dross we've signed when looking for bargains - there's been terrible stop gap buys of journeymen internationals by both Rafa and Hodgson (Kyrgiakos, Rodriguez, Poulsen) when its clear that there are players who will be just as effective in the short term and have a better resale value in the long term who are young and hungry - like Coleman, like Martin Kelly, like Danny Pacheco. Thats not to say that there's anything to stop a manager getting the best out of said journeymen.

Look at Fulham under Hodgeson; organised, commited and good to watch. Change of manager and it's the same story.

Fulham played decent football at home under Hodgson, they never played decent football away from home. I'd hazard a gues at about 3 away wins in the last two seasons altogether. They played negative park the bus football. I admitted that I thought Hodgson would do a good job, and that I do like the style of football Fulham managed at times over the last few years, but against I reiterate, the expectations are totally different. He has installed none of those characteristics into our team and have shown no sign of doing so other than in one half against Arsenal.

in case you hadn't noticed the 80s are over. Climb down from your ivory tower there and play in the mud with the rest of us you headcase. That expectation should have died some time during the last 2 decades when you didn't win a single title. In fact that expectation is going to be the very thing that strangles the life out of your club as you sack manager after manger in a quest to get a bunch of sub par fools to actually play.

I'm not talking about the 1980s I'm talking about two years ago when were at the top of UEFAs European football rankings (not that they are important, but they are a result of our successes in Europe). I'm talking about two years ago when we beat United twice, Chelsea twice, Real Madrid twice. I'm talking about the last six season where we've done in Chelsea under Mourinho twice, Juve when they were good, Milan, Inter, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Arsenal, PSV (twice). I'm talking about when we were Champions League club who no-one wanted to get drawn against in the knock-out stages.

Of course our expectations are probably hurting us because we never live up to them. I have no problem taking the flak for some plonker constantly saying "this is our year" - I expected to be slagged and insulted over that but I don't mind it. We want to be at the top. When we finished second I was pretty happy because I thought we'd launched proper title bid but had probably left it behind but that we'd be ready to start again next season. If I had known how much the squad had been overperforming at the time, the regret probably would have been too much to take - and believe me it was hard enough seeing Arshavin score 4 or Macheda's goal go in at the time, or Lucas tripping that Wigan lad when our entire defense had gone AWOL up the pitch.

Bottom line you can sack a dozen managers but you can't sack the players so demand changes all you like or start an "are Liverpool going to get relegated "

Liverpool aren't in the habit of sacking managers, but they also aren't in the habit of employing ones who are terribly out of their depth. They gave him a three year contract so they could get some compensation from the F.A. when he was expected to walk into the England job after Capello goes. Thats fucked now and everyone knows it. I don't expect him to be fired right now but I honestly think it would be for the better, because I really think we'll be on 8 points after 11 games in a few weeks time - there are no green shoots of recovery showing and he will insist on sticking to his guns and I'm extremely pessismistic.

 

[washingcattle]

Look I'm more than willing to let this argument or discussion or whatever die now. Trust me I feel your rage and disappointment. We won the FA cup then finished 6th between 95-96 then dropped back into the relegation zone and went through 4 managers because we had no money and the club was being run extremely badly. I know all about it. I've never been a fan of sacking a manager after a few weeks of a season. Firstly If you were genuinely expecting to be a threat this year I think you were a bit niave and secondly this;

The biggest frustration isn't a shit squad - I'd probably get to that frustration is the manager was getting anything near a good performance out of them and it was still coming up short. The biggest frustration is all the things I outlined in my post about the way we play - the lack of committment from the players and manager, the lack of tactical nous and organisation. Like I said, legitimately the worst team in the league at the moment.

Sounds a lot like everything on this thread from the latter half of last season. That's all I'm saying.

Hope at the very least you've gotten some of that rage out of you by now and look forward to reading "I think we've turned a corner and can kick on from here" in the next few weeks.

 

[ratmonkey]

It's all the milkman's fault apparently:


“I prefer not to talk too much about Liverpool,” said Benitez, who watched his former club’s Merseyside derby defeat on Sunday which left them second bottom of the table.

“I prefer not to talk about this because I feel really sorry for the fans.

“I was watching the fans and I was really sad after the defeat the other day.

“We have a saying in Spanish, which is: ’White liquid in a bottle has to be milk’.”

Benitez, who led Liverpool to second place in the Premier League in 2009 but could only manage seventh last term, added: “What does this mean? It means that after 86 points and finishing second in the league, what changed?

“The Americans, they chose a new managing director and everything changed.

“So, what changed?

“The managing director is involved in all the decisions: new lawyer, new chief of press, new manager, nine new players, new medical staff, new fitness coaches - they changed everything.

“At the beginning, they changed the managing director who was talking with some players, and they changed everything that we were doing in the past.

“So, if you want to ask again what was going on, it’s simple: they changed something and, at the end, they changed everything.

“So, white liquid in a bottle: milk. You will know who is to blame.”

Pressed further on the matter, Benitez would only say: “White liquid in a bottle. If I see John the milkman in the Wirral, where I was living, with this bottle, I’d say, ’It’s milk, sure’.”

​

 

[coast to coast]

Look I'm more than willing to let this argument or discussion or whatever die now. Trust me I feel your rage and disappointment. We won the FA cup then finished 6th between 95-96 then dropped back into the relegation zone and went through 4 managers because we had no money and the club was being run extremely badly. I know all about it. I've never been a fan of sacking a manager after a few weeks of a season. Firstly If you were genuinely expecting to be a threat this year I think you were a bit niave and secondly this;



Sounds a lot like everything on this thread from the latter half of last season. That's all I'm saying.

Hope at the very least you've gotten some of that rage out of you by now and look forward to reading "I think we've turned a corner and can kick on from here" in the next few weeks.

washingcattle I don't think this was too argumentative but I apologise for calling you "fucking mental" cos that possibly comes across as aggressive. I said the same last season that Rafa had failed to organize and motivate the team in the second half of last season. And much as I wanted to stick by him, I just couldn't see how his position could be kept over the summer. There was unrest amongst the squad - see Riera, Benayoun and Carragher, not to mention Mascherano angling for a move, the huge amount of tension between himself and Purslow and the usual bile from the media.

I honestly thought, "jaysus - that was so bad, the only way is up from here" - but I was wrong. It was possible to make the squad worse over the summer and for morale to sink even lower, and lose the fans with your rhetoric.

As I said, I hate the Newcastle-ness of it all, but I'm extremely worried not that it could go cataclysmically wrong (as in relegation fight) rather than just another really underwhelmingly bad season.

As for Everton I said in a comment on a Guardian pre-season blog that if they could shake their "usual early season blues" they would challenge Spurs/City for the top 4, but they went and titsed that up with a shocking start again before entering their usual injury crisis period.

And to make matters even worse, United are about to enter some form of meltdown and I can't even enjoy it!

 

[coast to coast]

It's all the milkman's fault apparently:


“I prefer not to talk too much about Liverpool,” said Benitez, who watched his former club’s Merseyside derby defeat on Sunday which left them second bottom of the table.

“I prefer not to talk about this because I feel really sorry for the fans.

“I was watching the fans and I was really sad after the defeat the other day.

“We have a saying in Spanish, which is: ’White liquid in a bottle has to be milk’.”

Benitez, who led Liverpool to second place in the Premier League in 2009 but could only manage seventh last term, added: “What does this mean? It means that after 86 points and finishing second in the league, what changed?

“The Americans, they chose a new managing director and everything changed.

“So, what changed?

“The managing director is involved in all the decisions: new lawyer, new chief of press, new manager, nine new players, new medical staff, new fitness coaches - they changed everything.

“At the beginning, they changed the managing director who was talking with some players, and they changed everything that we were doing in the past.

“So, if you want to ask again what was going on, it’s simple: they changed something and, at the end, they changed everything.

“So, white liquid in a bottle: milk. You will know who is to blame.”

Pressed further on the matter, Benitez would only say: “White liquid in a bottle. If I see John the milkman in the Wirral, where I was living, with this bottle, I’d say, ’It’s milk, sure’.”

​

Classic mental Benitez. Love the man. Good to see Peter Crouch sticking the boot into him during the build up to Spurs vs Inter. Another classy English footballer (even if the quotes were probably somewhat dis-contextualized).

 

[Hector Grey]

later, wankers. great name for a band.

a relegation dogfight might just add a bit of frisson to an otherwise dull season. or, we could finally win that old trophy a 19th time.

so many positives, when you think about it.

 

[washingcattle]

washingcattle I don't think this was too argumentative but I apologise for calling you "fucking mental" cos that possibly comes across as aggressive. I said the same last season that Rafa had failed to organize and motivate the team in the second half of last season. And much as I wanted to stick by him, I just couldn't see how his position could be kept over the summer. There was unrest amongst the squad - see Riera, Benayoun and Carragher, not to mention Mascherano angling for a move, the huge amount of tension between himself and Purslow and the usual bile from the media.

I honestly thought, "jaysus - that was so bad, the only way is up from here" - but I was wrong. It was possible to make the squad worse over the summer and for morale to sink even lower, and lose the fans with your rhetoric.

As I said, I hate the Newcastle-ness of it all, but I'm extremely worried not that it could go cataclysmically wrong (as in relegation fight) rather than just another really underwhelmingly bad season.

As for Everton I said in a comment on a Guardian pre-season blog that if they could shake their "usual early season blues" they would challenge Spurs/City for the top 4, but they went and titsed that up with a shocking start again before entering their usual injury crisis period.

And to make matters even worse, United are about to enter some form of meltdown and I can't even enjoy it!

By our standards it wasn't actually that bad a start we only lost 3 games. But we really can't challange City or Spurs for obvious financial reasons. Perhaps it's time to bury whatever hatchet there is on Merseyside, share a ground, lower expectations and ticket prices and start investing in the youth teams. In short be more German. Competing financially is near impossible at the moment so we'll both just have to batten down the hatches concentrate on the Europa league and wait for the banks to go bust and take Chelski, the scum and the middle-eastlands with them. Returning Spurs, ourselves, your lot and Arsenal to our rightful places atop the pile and putting an end to an era of football which will be looked back with the same ridicule as is reserved for disco and hair metal and any other flight into ridiculous excess.

 

[coast to coast]

Does any one really want a shared stadium? Its incredibly unpopular with nearly everyone at Liverpool and I don't think its a logical scenario - though nor is Everton moving to Kirkby. Being more German is definitely the way to go.

 

[washingcattle]

Does any one really want a shared stadium? Its incredibly unpopular with nearly everyone at Liverpool and I don't think its a logical scenario - though nor is Everton moving to Kirkby. Being more German is definitely the way to go.

No one wants it but needs must that simple really.

Checked out the Fergie Rooney press conference yet ? Smiles all round.