Marriage Equality Referendum (3 Viewers)

[ann post]

In croatia it was defeated around a year and a bit ago. I was chatting to the lgbt group there and they said it basically came down to the misinformation campaigns run by the catholic right minority and it was a massive surprise to people when it didn't go through. Ireland is similar to croatia in structure (population, catholic history). so there.

 

[Reets]

After all the comments I've heard lately, I'm worried that the no side will win.
It might be a generalisation, but the older generation are more likely to vote no and to vote in the first place.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Don't they have a much more aggressive anti-gay movement in that part of the world than here or am I just being racist?

Violent attacks on pride parades, stuff like that

 

[hydromancer]

Let's seee what the odd's on this are
Gay Marriage Referendum - Irish Politics Betting Odds - Paddy Power

 

[ann post]

After all the comments I've heard lately, I'm worried that the no side will win.
It might be a generalisation, but the older generation are more likely to vote no and to vote in the first place.

The older generation aren't all pricks though. My folks are in their sixties, my mums best mate is a gay guy from town and he was always like a sort of uncle figure to us. The school they worked in had a 'marriage of convenience' couple (male and female, i'd be very, very surprised if they'd ever shared a bed). Everyone knew this and nobody really cared. I've played pool occasionally for about 20 years with one of the most openly intimidating lesbians you'll ever meet. These are examples from a tiny rural small town, not some cool city. I know the whole thing is completely backward, but my point is is that even rednecks have openly gay mates and at some point they are going to consider their friends rights wether they be vocal about it or not.

online comments are an awful gage of anything. I have a small suspicion that a sort of reverse bradley effect might happen in ireland. people might via religion think they shoud vote no, but when it comes to the booth they might think more about who their real friends have been all along.

 

[hydromancer]

My brother inlaw's sister is married to another woman actually they have differnt nationalities from each other but both countries recognise it

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

In croatia it was defeated around a year and a bit ago. I was chatting to the lgbt group there and they said it basically came down to the misinformation campaigns run by the catholic right minority and it was a massive surprise to people when it didn't go through. Ireland is similar to croatia in structure (population, catholic history). so there.

Didnt Croatia vote to constitutionally define marriage as a man/woman pairing rather than explicitly vote against gay marriage? Of course the end result is the same but there is a distinction.
Croatia allow referendums on anything if a percentage (10% I believe) of the population demands it. The government want to remove that power now as, following the gay marriage ban there was demand to end the practise of bilingualism in minority regions, an action apparently aimed at the Serb minority.
Which of course raises the question of what's more democratic- allowing a majority (of actual voters at least, referendums generally have low turnouts), via citizen initiatives, change the law as they see fit or, taking away that right to protect minorities. Anyway, I'm going way off topic here...

Don't they have a much more aggressive anti-gay movement in that part of the world than here or am I just being racist?

Violent attacks on pride parades, stuff like that

Its a more aggressive region generally (a hangover from the break up of Yugoslavia rather than any innate tendency to violence), but yeah, last years Pride parade in Belgrade was the first in four years after riots in 2010 and only went ahead under a huge police presence which, as far as I recall, basically shut down the areas adjoining the march. While I imagine Slovenia is relatively advanced as far as this stuff goes, Pristina has yet to hold a Pride while attempts to hold an awareness event in Sarajevo were abandoned after the building was attacked. I couldn't comment on Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro (I think thats all the Balkan states) but I doubt it's any better.
It seems that any legislation enacted protecting LGBT people is aimed more at impressing the EU with a view to membership than any real concern for those affected. Still, lest we forget, France had a huge march (100, 000+) against gay marriage only last year which ended in a riot so its not an exclusively Balkan problem.

 

[hydromancer]

Let's seee what the odd's on this are
Gay Marriage Referendum - Irish Politics Betting Odds - Paddy Power

Looks like this is odds on to go through then or have I got that wrong ?

 

[IFF]

can i ask, do any of you really actually intend on going and voting on the day? do you see this referendum passing?

i've voted every time i've had an opportunity to vote so far so unless something comes up that physically prevents me from voting (hospital basically and the last time i stayed in hospital over more than 24 hours was when i was 6 and my mother doesn't even remember it), i will be voting

but i do carry the fears that it might fail on the day and that is a concern, if it did fail and i didn't vote it, i'd be disappointed with myself.

 

[jonah]

Check the Register

 

[egg_]

As they say, the arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice.

Hah! More like "history is merely a series of surprises - it can only prepare us to be surprised yet again"

I think it'll pass, FWIW, mostly because I expect my parents to vote "yes"

(that quote is from a character in a Kurt Vonnegut novel, in case you were wondering)

 

[nooleen]

fair play gay

Gay Byrne: same-sex marriage is ‘long overdue’

 

[Lili Marlene]

The opposition:

Head to head: Why we should vote against the same-sex marriage referendum

Spoiler: his argument is insulting to many and also just plain incorrect in many ways.

Decent read though.

 

[nooleen]

oh my god, fuck off

did any of these pricks ever spend the tiniest bit of time pontificating about the meaning of marriage before people they think shouldn't be allowed started asking for it? i seriously doubt it. suddenly everyone's a fucking expert on the philosophical basis of marriage.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

The opposition:

Head to head: Why we should vote against the same-sex marriage referendum

Spoiler: his argument is insulting to many and also just plain incorrect in many ways.

Decent read though.

Meh rating for the article, not you. It's written in a style that suggests he's following some sort of logic but the logic is ultimately flawed if we're using "nature" as a mark of whether someone can marry someone else. Nature has provided us with homosexuality and heterosexuality (and anything in between) so that's his point of marriage being based around children out the window.

 

[Lili Marlene]

yeah pretty much, but I kind of like to see someone's wrongness written up in such detailed glory.

Also all his philosophical and historical justification is basically just him laying out the thinking that led to the society we have today...you know, the one we want to change.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

"What I describe cannot be compared with any other state of human existence"

Not even in the families of unmarried parents? Vote against this because my marriage.

 

[hydromancer]

This craic untill the end of July

 

[Unicron]

This craic untill the end of July

Has it been pushed back to then? I heard Shatter on the radio yesterday and whoever the host was asking if, as no date beyond "sometime in May", had been set if the vote should be delayed to sort out some issues that they were discussing before I tuned in could be resolved.

Shatter, to his credit and I'd rarely say that, seemed to be taking the "people have waited long enough for this" line.

 

[Unicron]

The opposition:

Head to head: Why we should vote against the same-sex marriage referendum

Spoiler: his argument is insulting to many and also just plain incorrect in many ways.

Decent read though.

For a dude who seems to be really wrapped up in his marriage as a big deal a fundamental source of his life satisfaction he seems quite insecure about it if he's so dismissive of other people's feelings about their own marriages.