Lisbon Treaty (2 Viewers)

[socmot]

If the turnout is less than 50%, which it probably is, then that means that the majority of people aren’t bothered about having a say on changes to the Constitution. If that’s the case and the end vote is a no vote, then that’s undemocratic. Yet people are voting no because of fears of a democratic deficit.
It’s a load of me hole.

You're right, it is a load of me hole - people made a free choice as to whether to vote or not to vote. Unless people were prevented from voting, there is nothing undemocratic about it.

 

[classic seanc]

Why is it such a big deal that we change the constitution if most people don't take the opportunity to have their say when they get the chance?

 

[billygannon]

If the turnout is less than 50%, which it probably is, then that means that the majority of people aren’t bothered about having a say on changes to the Constitution. If that’s the case and the end vote is a no vote, then that’s undemocratic. Yet people are voting no because of fears of a democratic deficit.
It’s a load of me hole.

How is it undemocratic if it is less than a 50% vote?
If it is a No vote, then that says that the majority of people who voted voted No. If a person didn't vote, then they didn't participate in the democratic process and therefore did not take the opportunity to represent their views.
It's not democratic if over 50% were prevented from voting. But they're not being prevented, so therefore the referendum, and its results, represents the views of the voting public - and is therefore fully democratic.

 

[socmot]

Why is it such a big deal that we change the constitution if most people don't take the opportunity to have their say when they get the chance?

Because it is better to allow the people the opportunity to alter the document that defines their country?

 

[classic seanc]

Hm, you’re not getting me. Or perhaps I’m just wrong. How and ever……

We’re only having this vote because it changes the Constitution. I realise people have different reasons for not voting, but if the majority of people for whatever reason don’t participate, either by voting or by spoiling their vote, then that suggests that the majority of people think it’s no big deal if the constitution is changed. And if the majority of people don’t mind either way, then what’s the point in asking them? The majority of those eligible to exercise their democratic right to vote ostensibly said “I don’t want to vote”, so why does it matter what the result is?

It’s just a bit of a rant, don’t worry about it.


On another note, I reckon we look pretty stupid to the rest of Europe by having this idea of holding referenda (which the rest of Europe doesn’t need to have), when the voters don’t participate in it.

 

[Froog]

it is the irish way.

 

[magicbastarder]

UEFA have just confirmed that irish teams will no longer be eligible to play in europe if the referendum is defeated as appears likely.

 

[Goff]

On another note, I reckon we look pretty stupid to the rest of Europe by having this idea of holding referenda (which the rest of Europe doesn’t need to have), when the voters don’t participate in it.

I doubt that. I reckon the rest of Europe will be thinking that maybe they should have their own referenda as that seems like a fairly democratic thing to do. You seem to be missing the point that a lot of people who didn't vote, did so because they erred on the side of caution as they hadn't a clue what they were voting on. So they used their democratic right to abstain.

 

[classic seanc]

I doubt that. I reckon the rest of Europe will be thinking that maybe they should have their own referenda as that seems like a fairly democratic thing to do. You seem to be missing the point that a lot of people who didn't vote, did so because they erred on the side of caution as they hadn't a clue what they were voting on. So they used their democratic right to abstain.

Sure, yeah, but by "the rest of Europe" I meant politicians etc. I'm sure plenty of European voters are miffed at not being asked (though they were asked, through their governments, just not directly through a referendum).

I think if you err on the side of caution you should go in and spoil your vote. I don't like this idea of abstainence, you can't differentiate the "I want to vote, but I can't vote on this issue" people from the "I don't care about voting" people.

 

[Goff]

Sure don't the americans abstain all the time in the UN? I'm with you on the voting thing. I personally think you should or else don't bother complaining about the result. But I also believe people can make their own minds up. But that's just me.

Speaking of spoiling votes. On Sky news they keep running a piece of footage with the ballot papers being counted. The No one has a big X and the Yes one has a check mark. Is that not a spoiled vote?

 

[billygannon]

Over here in the mainland they're jealous of the Irish getting to vote on this.

They're all hoping it's a No vote.

Oh! And if it is a No vote, then Ireland has to join the Commonwealth.

 

[Goff]

The mainland, Bill? Have you moved to France?!!

 

[billygannon]

The mainland, Bill? Have you moved to France?!!

No... Bwitain! Land of Hope and Glory and all that.
National holiday on Monday to celebrate Wayne and Colleen's marraige. Pizza and chips for all. And at 3 o'clock we'll all tune in to an hour of live CCTV coverage of the Colleen giving a young mother a makeover in a shopping mall somewhere in Kent.
And the Queen has decreed that it should rain every 12th June in memory of the glorious occasion.

 

[MDR]

Tallies being reported on Politics.ie pointing to a No vote. I voted 'yes' myself.

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=36942&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

[pete]

Maybe the African Union will take us when we get chucked out of the EU.

 

[classic seanc]

Well, we are the blacks of Europe.

 

[flashback]

Rejected.

We're some shower of gobshites.

 

[pete]

any word on a date for the rerun?

 

[egg_]

I voted yes to a European referendum for the first time, because I think the EU nearly always does a better job of looking after the things I care about than we do ourselves.

Sure, the EU is increasingly neo-liberal but what's the alternative? Our special homegrown brand of cowboy capitalism, that's what. Save us from ourselves, eurocrats!

 

[flashback]

I was hoping it might have gone to penalties.