Lisbon Treaty (4 Viewers)

[therealjohnny]

so what did he say?

probably something like this
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/28511

Benn spoke about the importance of democracy.
“Democracy took power from the market to the polling station and from the wallet to the ballot box” he said.
However, the current direction of the European Union, including the Lisbon Treaty, he argued, was moving in the opposite direction. Benn spoke of his experience on the Council of Ministers, and of the undemocratic nature of EU decision-making. He described the Treaty as being like a lobster pot, “easy to get in but hard to get out of”.
Benn also challenged those who claimed that the anti-Lisbon campaign was Anti-European. “When Margaret Thatcher was prime minister I wasn’t anti-British”, he said, and went on to argue that he “wanted a different kind of Europe”.

Then, as if by magic the shopkeeper appeared, and Mr Benns' adventure was at an end. "It was fun speaking to Shinners" he thought as he made his way home to 52 Festive Road.

 

[Goff]

When the Govt. go out of their way to make you feel guilty and you have to vote yes, without telling you why, then I'd be convinced it's your duty to say no.

Nothing will change if we vote no, but we hand over Democracy if we say yes.

It's an Enabling Act by any other name.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

The idea of majority voting - no matter how qualified - disturbs me. I feel we are moving away from being a community of equals (which was the part of the European project that always appealed to me most and I was most proud of) to being Germany and France plus associated sattelites.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

When the Govt. go out of their way to make you feel guilty and you have to vote yes, without telling you why, then I'd be convinced it's your duty to say no.

Nothing will change if we vote no, but we hand over Democracy if we say yes.

It's an Enabling Act by any other name.

Also after the way they just ignored the last no vote it's time to remid the fuckers who's in charge.

 

[nofunchee]

someone has yet to explain to me why taking power away from fianna fail would be a bad thing.

well, if the treaty does take power away it'll be from the irish government, which just happens to be fianna fail dominated at the moment. it's up to people living in ireland who have a vote to take power from them, not the eu.

 

[Goff]

Also after the way they just ignored the last no vote it's time to remid the fuckers who's in charge.

Make no mistake, if we vote no this time, we'll have another referendum in a few months, even though it's supposed to be the end of it. But I'd like to think that this time, people won't fall for the same shite again and will be mightily pissed off at being treated like mugs. But, after the last election, I can't be optimistic about it.

(Speaking of which, just because Bertie resigned, doesn't mean we actually have a new Government. But a lot of people seem to think we do. What's that all about?)

I think that anyone who votes Yes, without understanding what is happening is a fucking idiot.

Kathy Sinnot threw a good pamphlet into the door the other day. Which can be found here: http://www.euinfo.ie/uploads/file/LT-leaflet.pdf

It's well worth a read.

Go Kathy.

 

[kleft]

i am voting yes because although i do not trust it, i believe in democracy

 

[Mormon Nailer]

i am voting yes because although i do not trust it, i believe in democracy

WTF?

 

[Goff]

i am voting yes because although i do not trust it, i believe in democracy

But obviously have no understanding of what it means.

Democracy is meant to be when the people elect officials to run the place for them. It does not mean a lot of unelected people making the rules.

 

[Janer]

Where is the option of not even registered!

 

[pete]

Where is the option of not even registered!

fixed

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Where is the option of not even registered!

You're not registered? Shame on you Janer

 

[Unicron]

Where is the option of not even registered!

God you're so punk.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Imaging there was an abortion refferendum lost by a single vote? How would you feel then Janer?

 

[oh shit]

fixed

how about not eligible to vote

 

[oh shit]

i am voting yes because although i do not trust it, i believe in democracy

you must mean that part of democracy where you just do what you're told without thinking too hard about it

 

[Mormon Nailer]

you must mean that part of democracy where you just do what you're told without thinking too hard about it

They hate us because of our freedoms.

 

[Froog]

why is ireland the only country to have a referendum?
also, is it true if one country votes no i.e. ireland, then the treaty cannot be ratified?

 

[Unicron]

why is ireland the only country to have a referendum?
also, is it true if one country votes no i.e. ireland, then the treaty cannot be ratified?

It's the law that all EU treaties must but put to the Irish people, I believe it's because accepting the treaty requires an amendment to the constitution, and that can only take place via referendum. I think that there's an aspect to the current treaty that makes it self editing which means that aspects can be added to it thus circumventing that. Or at least that's what some of the no campaign have been saying, maybe I'm wrong.

Yes, that's the case, which is why we never had a vote on the constitution as the Dutch and Danish (and also possibly the French?) rejected it in referenda. Why they're not having votes this time I'm not sure. If the treaty passes this will no longer be the case as the voting system will be changed to a qualified majority system.

For the record I'm voting no as I don't think lack of transparency in our leaders is a good thing even though I'm in favour of Europe. Doesn't sit well to be agreeing withthe Shinners but there's a first time for everything. But there's also that "save ireland" bunch who have been distributing nasty stuff about Turkey in Cork. I don't want them in the EU either but for totally different reasons.

 

[Goff]

If we pass this, we can kiss goodbye to future referenda on Europe. Because so long as both houses of the Oireachtas approve any changes, they can pass anything. Even though they're trying to say that we will have referenda on important issues. But we all know that won't be the case because no one wants to be told what to do by the pleb.

So basically we are signing away our constitution if we go for this. And that's not a good thing. Overall, we have one of the more progressive constitutions on the planet, based on the fact that we always have to have a referendum to change it. Even the great American constitution can be changed without a referendum. But we're going to lose this one key item of democracy if we vote yes. And, in my mind, it's the only true democratic process we have.