Ladyfest Table Quiz: Air Guitar for Your Brain. (1 Viewer)

[jane]

Heh heh. Foxy boxing. Did you guys get the GLOW girls here?

Oh, and again with more rectifying of what we're about:
There are differences in the way women and men experience the world. Women who are creative are not always encouraged in the same ways men are. Little girls are encouraged to use their talents to 'perform', while little boys are perhaps more often encouraged to create. These things don't come from one source, and more often than not, they are internalised messages. I'm aware that's an overgeneralisation, but I think these things do happen. And often.

But it works both ways: all people who somehow don't live up to gender expectations can sometimes end up viewing themselves as somehow inadequate. Boys who aren't good at sport, or prefer reading books to building robots can also feel that there are gender barriers in place for them. We feel that LAdyfest can help challenge those things on all fronts, not to 'turn the tables' and start denigrating men.

Ladyfest is about recognising that these societial things we internalise are not something we should view from the position of victim. Being 'victim' suggests that there should be some sort of reparation, when that is not productive. It's about just standing up and saying, "Look, you don't have to apologise, and neither do we. Now let's have fun."

Empowering women not only takes nothing away from men, but can help to open up new avenues of discussion, debate, and creativity for everyone.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

actually fuck the pair of you - johnny harris has my full support
takin it back to the 16th century.

andrew

 

[Ex-User (250)]

sorry, i still don't see the need for any exclusion at all. but i still support it. (must add andy to ignore list.)

 

[Ed]

sorry, i still don't see the need for any exclusion at all. but i still support it. (must add andy to ignore list.)

That's because you're a boy, and all boys are stupid. Way to miss the point of the whole ladyfest thing dude.

 

[choking_tara]

hey - i've got the soul jazz and rough trade art russell re-issues. but you're right, i'm only a faux-muso. i liked that matador comment earlier btw

If you weren't down with the Russell before the reissues, you ain't shit.
Har har har.

 

[oh shit]

If you weren't down with the Rusell before the reissues, you ain't shit.
Har har har.

had a feelin that was coming.

 

[choking_tara]

actually fuck the pair of you - johnny harris has my full support
takin it back to the 16th century.

andrew

Damn straight, I'd throw my vote in behind him anydays with his Gamelan compilations and Japanese Improv boxsets.

 

[jane]

From my own experience, I think women do feel less comfortable playing full roles in mixed environments, and I don't think it comes from overt pressures exerted by men. And we are helping to debate this, and we want people to do so. But what is important to us is that creating a place where these discussions can take place means making sure our voices are heard, too.

Personally, even though I know I am fairly outspoken, quite involved, and tend to be somewhat unafraid to try new things, I feel less comfortable in mixed environments when it comes to expressing creativity.

Here's a little story, unrelated to music, but I think relevant to experience in terms of women having to 'prove' ourselves:

When I was 20, and a competitive runner, before I fell to pieces, I actually had a career in the making. Of course, being a girl, this was not something instantly recognised by those who didn't already know me. A male friend and I joined a running club at the same time. He was immediately assumed to be able to keep up with the 'fast' group and invited along on their run. I was warned that I might be unable to keep up, and it was suggested that I wait until the 'slow' group went for their run.

I smiled and said, "Oh, okay, well, I'll give the fast group a shot, and just hope I don't get lost on the route."

And off we went. By the time we got up the last hill, I had to turn around and ask someone the way back before taking off and beating them all by at least five minutes.

I didn't know if I was going to be able to do it, but the point is, as a woman, I was expected to be slower, and a 'fitness' runner. No one explicitly asked me to prove myself, and it could be argued that I put the pressure on myself, but the fact that my friend, who was the same age I was, was immediately given the benefit of the doubt, made it important for me to challenge that.

After the licking the lads took, I was indeed accepted, and never again questioned (and, in fact, they were all really supportive of me), but I should not have had to beat them all to be included. Women, whether or not we are reading assumptions and internalising them as pressure are often expected to do twice as well as men to receive the same credit.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

ok, and that's exactly the point i'm trying to make. by being involved in the race, the boys witnessed first hand what you're capable of. surely if guys were involved and saw, first hand, women pulling an entire festival/medium of dissemanation of information together, they'd be in awe? and have more 'respect' as a result? all i'm saying is that it seems like girls celebrating girls when it could just as easily be girls and boys celebrating girls.

 

[oh shit]

ok, and that's exactly the point i'm trying to make. by being involved in the race, the boys witnessed first hand what you're capable of. surely if guys were involved and saw, first hand, women pulling an entire festival/medium of dissemanation of information together, they'd be in awe? and have more 'respect' as a result? all i'm saying is that it seems like girls celebrating girls when it could just as easily be girls and boys celebrating girls.

yeah but the point was that jane would prolly have felt more comfortable without the gang of lads... i think

 

[jane]

sorry, i still don't see the need for any exclusion at all. but i still support it. (must add andy to ignore list.)

But I hope you will understand that it's not about exclusion. It's about women getting together to find our own creative voices so that we will not feel that we have to exclude ourselves from the mixed worlds we live in.

I understand your question, and it's an issue I think all of us grapple with to some extent. But I think it's partly about taking a step back to ask ourselves why we sometimes feel less equipped to express ourselves, and in order to do that, a lady-only environment is something very useful, that will go some way towards achieving that understanding.

Next time you're in a group meeting of some kind, notice how women often apologise for their ideas, or qualify them by saying things like, 'This might be stupid, but...' No one asked for their apology, did they? But still, there's something that many of us feel causes us to speak like that.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

yeah but the point was that jane would prolly have felt more comfortable without the gang of lads... i think

i doubt it.

 

[jane]

yeah but the point was that jane would prolly have felt more comfortable without the gang of lads... i think

Not really. I did often wish that I had more women to train with, but really, I almost always trained with the men. They ran the speeds and distances that best suited my training, and it wasn't an issue. But my point was that I felt I had to prove that I could beat them before I could be accepted. Really, I would just have had to keep up with the slower ones in the fast pack, but there was something internal that made me feel that if I really wanted to be part of this, I had to be faster than them at least once.

And it's not like we're hiding what we're doing in terms of organisation. In fact, we are encouraging everyone to participate: we are showing that we can do this, that women, when we take the chance to do something like this, we will make it relevant to everyone.

It is about everyone celebrating stuff. I mean, when any small group of people gets together to organise something, people still see the event as a good time, as a success, as something fun for everyone that can include loads of people. This is just another way of doing that. And we are including everyone along the way.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

But I hope you will understand that it's not about exclusion. It's about women getting together to find our own creative voices so that we will not feel that we have to exclude ourselves from the mixed worlds we live in.

I understand your question, and it's an issue I think all of us grapple with to some extent. But I think it's partly about taking a step back to ask ourselves why we sometimes feel less equipped to express ourselves, and in order to do that, a lady-only environment is something very useful, that will go some way towards achieving that understanding.

Next time you're in a group meeting of some kind, notice how women often apologise for their ideas, or qualify them by saying things like, 'This might be stupid, but...' No one asked for their apology, did they? But still, there's something that many of us feel causes us to speak like that.

ok, i guess it's hard for me to understand this, being a guy and all, but i'm very curious and it feels like there's something i don't know, simply because i'm not allowed get involved. and i know there's lots i don't know. and it would be cool if some of you would take the time to articulate this stuff further... i was raised by an immensly strong woman and i know lots of girls who are much smater and have more conviction than most of my male friends, you being one so, and forgive me for being so flippant, but i don't see what all the fuss is about. but there obviously are issues, but a lot of them seem to be hidden from your average guy. and this just seems like the perfect vehicle for educating them... that's all

 

[jane]

ok, i guess it's hard for me to understand this, being a guy and all, but i'm very curious and it feels like there's something i don't know, simply because i'm not allowed get involved. and i know there's lots i don't know. and it would be cool if some of you would take the time to articulate this stuff further... i was raised by an immensly strong woman and i know lots of girls who are much smater and have more conviction than most of my male friends, you being one so, and forgive me for being so flippant, but i don't see what all the fuss is about. but there obviously are issues, but a lot of them seem to be hidden from your average guy. and this just seems like the perfect vehicle for educating them... that's all

I don't think you're being flippant, just maybe not recognising exactly what we're doing. You are involved, though! One of the things I personally feel in terms of the fest is that, yes, I do wish our male friends were around sometimes, but I also know that the way I feel as part of this women-only group is really empowering. I appreciate being noted for my conviction, but if even someone with strong convictions feels challenged by mixed environments, imagine how it must feel for those whose convictions are hidden away from view?

But we're having a debate now, aren't we? And isn't beginning to debate gender roles important? And if Ladyfest can be a platform for that, then that's a good thing.

Important debates only arise out of controversy. No one ever changed anything without doing something different.

 

[jane]

Oh, and one more thing before I go and wash my sweaty self, what Ladyfest has done for me so far is to force me to ask myself the following question:
If I am reasonably strong and outspoken, and I feel empowered in a group of women, and that I know it's about what I do and don't choose to acknowledge about myself, why don't I always feel like this in mixed environments, too?

 

[cheryl]

...but at the gossip gig it seemed to annoy more girls than guys. but those were mainly the type who stand at the back with their arms folded anyway.

beth annoyed them? in what way?

 

[Ex-User (250)]

i know i'm involved in a small way. i just wish there was no need for exclusion. we had a similar argument when things was started, do we allow pricks like FKOS to join or do we keep it exclusive to indie bands, simply because pricks wouldn't appreciate what we were trying to do.

i just think any exclusion or perception of same can be counter-productive.

but, in saying that, anyone doing anything in my opinion is pretty great. even pete.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

Oh, and one more thing before I go and wash my sweaty self, what Ladyfest has done for me so far is to force me to ask myself the following question:
If I am reasonably strong and outspoken, and I feel empowered in a group of women, and that I know it's about what I do and don't choose to acknowledge about myself, why don't I always feel like this in mixed environments, too?

maybe it's because you mistake B.O., bad clothes, farts and burps for intelligence?

 

[jane]

maybe it's because you mistake B.O., bad clothes, farts and burps for intelligence?

The amount of intelligence a person possesses is inversely proportional to their digestive gas.

Fact.

(I hope.)