Post-COVID live music (1 Viewer)

[seanc]

I do like Colin:

European touring made Radiohead what we are. Brexit must not destroy it | Colin Greenwood

Unless our government acts, the red tape and costs of touring Europe will kill off careers and diminish our national culture

www.theguardian.com

 

[ann post]

I'd imagine anyone touring from outside the EU, that Ireland is gonna be only the realm of the gareth bruques types who are looking at a a mutli thousand walkover type deal. Doing an overnight for a 20 hour trip here for a break even gig having to do the brit customs twice isn't gonna be a realistic prospect for the interestings when an extra date in the UK would cover it, if they could be bothered at all going there.

Great for Irish artists though.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

I bet venue sizes doesnt help either

 

[seanc]

In the article he mentions all the lighting/sound etc. companies. All those companies are based in London. They may have warehouses in Europe, but every fancy light and every sound array and every massive LED screen and every massive stage that you see at a festival anywhere in Europe has probably gone through a warehouse in London at some point. Jesus, even the backline would be hired from London and shipped out, as if they don't have drum kits in Italy.

So that's all wrecked, to the detriment of everyone in Europe. And I expect as the industry adjusts, Ireland will be a distant afterthought. It'll be like going back to the 90's

 

[ann post]

Yeah i suspect they'd be looking at getting a warehouse anywhere on mainland europe and keeping a side rig for the UK. It all could be academic in any case - the megafest could be a non thing for a few years.

 

[seanc]

There's a common phrase over here: if you want it done properly, get it done in Britain or America.

I've worked with French and Dutch and German businesses, and I have to say it's true. The British (read: London) way of doing things is just better. And most of the people in the industry aren't British, they're just based here. Like me I suppose.

So yeah, they'll have to re-jig all their logistics. Megafests are out, but there's still sports and film/tv. But there's going to be a dilution of competent people who're going to have to follow the work and get spread all over Europe. And that's going to make everything shitter and more expensive for everyone on this continent.

 

[rettucs]

I'd imagine anyone touring from outside the EU, that Ireland is gonna be only the realm of the gareth bruques types who are looking at a a mutli thousand walkover type deal. Doing an overnight for a 20 hour trip here for a break even gig having to do the brit customs twice isn't gonna be a realistic prospect for the interestings when an extra date in the UK would cover it, if they could be bothered at all going there.

Great for Irish artists though.

its gareth bruques birthday today

 

[Cormcolash]

I'd imagine anyone touring from outside the EU, that Ireland is gonna be only the realm of the gareth bruques types who are looking at a a mutli thousand walkover type deal. Doing an overnight for a 20 hour trip here for a break even gig having to do the brit customs twice isn't gonna be a realistic prospect for the interestings when an extra date in the UK would cover it, if they could be bothered at all going there.

Great for Irish artists though.

There's a fair amount of acts that would do an Irish fly-in, so play the gig with hired backline. Some would even do 2-3 gigs that way. It's actually not too difficult for an American act to have gear and transport ready in Europe, then fly into Ireland a day or two before to do an Irish gig before they fly on to say Amsterdam or some shit.
It's mostly smaller acts doing that though, like Academy and smaller kind of venues, basically acts that just need a small amount of gear to do a gig and don't need stupid big stage set-ups. A lot of indie and punk kind of acts could do it easy. I doubt there'll be fuck all Olympia/Vicar Street and bigger size bands that would do that, as by that stage they usually want a big load of crap on the stage with them.

 

[Cormcolash]

In the article he mentions all the lighting/sound etc. companies. All those companies are based in London. They may have warehouses in Europe, but every fancy light and every sound array and every massive LED screen and every massive stage that you see at a festival anywhere in Europe has probably gone through a warehouse in London at some point. Jesus, even the backline would be hired from London and shipped out, as if they don't have drum kits in Italy.

So that's all wrecked, to the detriment of everyone in Europe. And I expect as the industry adjusts, Ireland will be a distant afterthought. It'll be like going back to the 90's

There are a lot based in the UK for sure, and we do tend to see more of them over here than those that come from Europe. This is actually probably linked to what I was saying above there, that because it's easier to start or end a tour in Ireland or the UK, it makes more sense for a lot of acts to use hire based near those first/last gigs.
There are plenty of hire for all these things based in Europe too though, and you'd see loads of arena size acts coming through here with that stuff. A lot of the big American tours even just bring their shit all over the world with them, the real biggest shit will almost always be doing that. Actually the video screen that Metallica used at Slane at the time was the biggest touring LED screen in the world as far as I remember, and it's also owned by fuckin Bono and co. or some shit like that.
Assuming this virus actually does fuck off at some point, it's feasible that Irish hire cos. could actually do well afterwards, as they might get more work from the acts that are actually getting here. We have a fuckin top quality PA company here that are suffering badly from the virus unfortunately. We also have a few companies with very good LED wall set-ups. And we have backline, lights companies too, that I wish would at least fix their fucking boxes.
London probably has (or maybe it's had at this point) the biggest backline hire company in Europe there, in John Henrys. A lot of touring acts in Europe use their gear.
Basically almost all the Irish outdoor festival sites are using gear from Irish companies and warehouses these days. I don't know about Picnic is all, it's such a big site that maybe they need extra shit for it.
I think the gear situation you describe would mostly affect bigger acts anyway, like gigs that are in 2000+ kind of size venues, but also not acts that are doing full on arena tours. Essentially, if you're playing below 2000 cap venues, chances are they have in-house PA and lights etc that will do the job, and if you're playing arenas, chances are you can afford to bring that shit yourself.

 

[Cormcolash]

Yeah i suspect they'd be looking at getting a warehouse anywhere on mainland europe and keeping a side rig for the UK.

A lot of companies might already have that kind of set-up anyway. Clair Brothers are one of the biggest PA hire cos. in the world, and they have offices in the UK and in Spain (not sure why Spain, but there ya go)

Edit: I'd imagine most of the biggest companies would already have an arrangement of that sort

 

[Cormcolash]

There's a common phrase over here: if you want it done properly, get it done in Britain or America.

I've worked with French and Dutch and German businesses, and I have to say it's true. The British (read: London) way of doing things is just better. And most of the people in the industry aren't British, they're just based here. Like me I suppose.

So yeah, they'll have to re-jig all their logistics. Megafests are out, but there's still sports and film/tv. But there's going to be a dilution of competent people who're going to have to follow the work and get spread all over Europe. And that's going to make everything shitter and more expensive for everyone on this continent.

When it comes to working at gigs, the absolute worst tours to work are the British-hire ones.
What the British-hire tours will do, every single time, is pack their 40 foot trucks as full as they can right to the roof the entire length of the truck, as naturally it means they can use far less trucks and thus save money on the transportation. That means packing and unpacking their trucks is a complete fucking pain in the hole. There's been many a truck that we've got right to the end of and basically run out of room for the last few boxes, because there is literally that much shit in the truck that if it isn't all perfectly packed, then you end up fucked.
Almost every British tour operates in that manner, pack whatever vehicle it is to the gills so that you only need 1 rather than 2. What this means is that I reckon probably 90% of these vehicles are driving around completely overweight and illegal, and also are generally far more dangerous to unload. (P.S Most Irish companies will do this exact same shit too, to be clear)

The American tours almost never have trucks packed in this manner. I mean, I literally can't remember the last time I unloaded an American truck that was stacked badly in this way. I'm pretty sure they have far stricter rules and checks for road transportation in America (and they have a massive union there that probably calls a lot of shots too) so I think they're literally not allowed to overpack trucks there, so then when they come to Europe they just stick by the same process.
The Americans will therefore use 3 times as many trucks for the same amount of gear, and that's far fucking preferable because you'll pack those 3 trucks faster than you'll pack that 1 British truck, because you're not worried about totally running out of room so you don't have to get every single thing in exactly the right spot which means much faster loading.
American trucks can still be dangerous too though, most of the American tours we get here that will bring their own trucks are big arena shows, so as a result there'll usually be some big heavy shit in some of those trucks. Like hydraulic lifts, big heavy fuckers that you need to be real careful with. And the actual stage decking if they bring their own stage, that shit goes on seriously heavy duty trolleys.

All of the above, to give a rough example from arena size shows, I'd say after a show you could usually load 20 American trucks in about 2-3 hours easy enough, whereas loading 5 British trucks would usually take 3-4 hours.

As far as the crews themselves go, I find American and British crews to be quite similar, they usually have 95% really good guys to work with that know their shit, and then 5% fuckin dickheads that nobody wants to work with. Ha one of the worst I ever came across is this fuckin dude from up North, I'll say no more than that except for upppp his ownnnn hole.
My absolute favourite crews to work with are always the Dutch, I find they're always fairly chilled and at the same time know exactly what to do and when. It's like Holland in general, I fuckin love how they get shit right in this relaxed kind of way.
I find Scandi crews are generally really good to work with too, but obviously there's a slight language barrier there. The Dutch speak better English than the English.
I find German crews are usually really good as well but naturally can be a bit more abrupt and it throws some people, personally I like them cause they get shit done quick.

The worst crews all round are almost always the ones where the dickheads have lasted and made it to the top and are now in charge of things, then everything below them just turns to shit as well.

 

[IFF]

There's a fair amount of acts that would do an Irish fly-in, so play the gig with hired backline. Some would even do 2-3 gigs that way. It's actually not too difficult for an American act to have gear and transport ready in Europe, then fly into Ireland a day or two before to do an Irish gig before they fly on to say Amsterdam or some shit.
It's mostly smaller acts doing that though, like Academy and smaller kind of venues, basically acts that just need a small amount of gear to do a gig and don't need stupid big stage set-ups. A lot of indie and punk kind of acts could do it easy. I doubt there'll be fuck all Olympia/Vicar Street and bigger size bands that would do that, as by that stage they usually want a big load of crap on the stage with them.

This reminded me that in June 2019, I was going to a gig in the Sound house. The gig got postponed to three weeks later because of "logistic and financial reasons"

She explained at the rearranged date that they ran out of money and couldn't travel at the time. Instead of a full band show, it was her and the drummer playing

And then, in future she might not be able to sell jam her mother made at future gigs

 

[seanc]

There are a lot based in the UK for sure, and we do tend to see more of them over here than those that come from Europe. This is actually probably linked to what I was saying above there, that because it's easier to start or end a tour in Ireland or the UK, it makes more sense for a lot of acts to use hire based near those first/last gigs.
There are plenty of hire for all these things based in Europe too though, and you'd see loads of arena size acts coming through here with that stuff. A lot of the big American tours even just bring their shit all over the world with them, the real biggest shit will almost always be doing that. Actually the video screen that Metallica used at Slane at the time was the biggest touring LED screen in the world as far as I remember, and it's also owned by fuckin Bono and co. or some shit like that.
Assuming this virus actually does fuck off at some point, it's feasible that Irish hire cos. could actually do well afterwards, as they might get more work from the acts that are actually getting here. We have a fuckin top quality PA company here that are suffering badly from the virus unfortunately. We also have a few companies with very good LED wall set-ups. And we have backline, lights companies too, that I wish would at least fix their fucking boxes.
London probably has (or maybe it's had at this point) the biggest backline hire company in Europe there, in John Henrys. A lot of touring acts in Europe use their gear.
Basically almost all the Irish outdoor festival sites are using gear from Irish companies and warehouses these days. I don't know about Picnic is all, it's such a big site that maybe they need extra shit for it.
I think the gear situation you describe would mostly affect bigger acts anyway, like gigs that are in 2000+ kind of size venues, but also not acts that are doing full on arena tours. Essentially, if you're playing below 2000 cap venues, chances are they have in-house PA and lights etc that will do the job, and if you're playing arenas, chances are you can afford to bring that shit yourself.

Well I seem to have hit a bit of your brain that isn't Star Trek gifs or Simpsons references. That's good, cool.

I hadn't thought that the logistics involve starting and ending a tour in the UK or maybe Ireland. I thought it was just because Ireland was the best place to end a tour because WE'RE THE BEST FANS IN THE WORLD. Bruce Springsteen lied to me, that's harsh to deal with.

Obviously I'm talking about the bigger acts here. I guess any smaller act could still sneak their way over to Ireland if they thought it was worth it. With the backline being your mates drumkit etc.

But I think this point still stands: The expertise, be it the lorry driver, the warehouse dudes, the techs etc; they were all London based, and they won't be anymore. There's great dudes everywhere, it's the dilution of that that will affect the whole industry. The skills and SOP's will dissipate very quickly. One might be the best whatever-tech in the world, but putting on a big show takes more than one person. Whenever megafests do happen again, it'll be more difficult and expensive to get the good crew in.

Also, I do miss the John Henry lads. Only saw them once in a blue moon, but top class dudes. They're essentially just logistics boys, but I would always look at them like they worked at Willy Wonka's Lego Magic Disneyland Super-Dinosaur funhouse factory.
"wow" I would say.
"Yeah, sign this delivery note" they would reply.

Anyway, BLAH.

 

[Cormcolash]

One other point about the Americans, they'll spend the money to hire the right amount of people to do their shit, whilst the Brits will always hire a bit less than they need just to save money again.
I guess the other side of that is that if you're an American tour that can play in Ireland, you can surely afford the shit you need, whereas if you're a British tour, it was easy to get to Ireland even if you didn't have loads of cash behind it.

There are a lot of good crew and techs based in the UK alright, and there's also an awful lot of them that will be able to get EU passports if they want through ancestry/marriage/birth etc etc. Actually I've talked to a bunch of 'English' crew that lived in places like Holland, Germany, Denmark, and a friend of mine who's a driver lives in Austria. I know sound techs living in Germany, etc. It occurs to me that a lot of the well-travelled crew actually already moved to nicer places than England in the past, before Brexit was even voted on, because they saw countries that actually kind of gave a shit about their living conditions and stuff.
A load of the English travelling crew probably went for Irish passports if they could get them too.

Yeah anyway this whole thing will obviously hit the UK far worse than it will hit Europe (would you rather play like 10 cities or like 40 cities) but Ireland will take a bit of a hit from that for sure, but I think the biggest effect will be on the 'medium-sized' acts, because the bigger acts will be able to afford shit anyway, whilst the smaller acts will be more able to slash costs. The medium sized acts will be stuck in the middle.

 

[pete]

One other point about the Americans, they'll spend the money to hire the right amount of people to do their shit, whilst the Brits will always hire a bit less than they need just to save money again.
I guess the other side of that is that if you're an American tour that can play in Ireland, you can surely afford the shit you need, whereas if you're a British tour, it was easy to get to Ireland even if you didn't have loads of cash behind it.

There are a lot of good crew and techs based in the UK alright, and there's also an awful lot of them that will be able to get EU passports if they want through ancestry/marriage/birth etc etc. Actually I've talked to a bunch of 'English' crew that lived in places like Holland, Germany, Denmark, and a friend of mine who's a driver lives in Austria. I know sound techs living in Germany, etc. It occurs to me that a lot of the well-travelled crew actually already moved to nicer places than England in the past, before Brexit was even voted on, because they saw countries that actually kind of gave a shit about their living conditions and stuff.
A load of the English travelling crew probably went for Irish passports if they could get them too.

Yeah anyway this whole thing will obviously hit the UK far worse than it will hit Europe (would you rather play like 10 cities or like 40 cities) but Ireland will take a bit of a hit from that for sure, but I think the biggest effect will be on the 'medium-sized' acts, because the bigger acts will be able to afford shit anyway, whilst the smaller acts will be more able to slash costs. The medium sized acts will be stuck in the middle.

You know them and they’re sound techs.

 

[pete]

Sorry.

 

[moose]

This reminded me that in June 2019, I was going to a gig in the Sound house. The gig got postponed to three weeks later because of "logistic and financial reasons"

She explained at the rearranged date that they ran out of money and couldn't travel at the time. Instead of a full band show, it was her and the drummer playing

And then, in future she might not be able to sell jam her mother made at future gigs

Who was this?

 

[IFF]

Who was this?

Billie Marten

 

[moose]

One other point about the Americans, they'll spend the money to hire the right amount of people to do their shit, whilst the Brits will always hire a bit less than they need just to save money again.
I guess the other side of that is that if you're an American tour that can play in Ireland, you can surely afford the shit you need, whereas if you're a British tour, it was easy to get to Ireland even if you didn't have loads of cash behind it.

There are a lot of good crew and techs based in the UK alright, and there's also an awful lot of them that will be able to get EU passports if they want through ancestry/marriage/birth etc etc. Actually I've talked to a bunch of 'English' crew that lived in places like Holland, Germany, Denmark, and a friend of mine who's a driver lives in Austria. I know sound techs living in Germany, etc. It occurs to me that a lot of the well-travelled crew actually already moved to nicer places than England in the past, before Brexit was even voted on, because they saw countries that actually kind of gave a shit about their living conditions and stuff.
A load of the English travelling crew probably went for Irish passports if they could get them too.

Yeah anyway this whole thing will obviously hit the UK far worse than it will hit Europe (would you rather play like 10 cities or like 40 cities) but Ireland will take a bit of a hit from that for sure, but I think the biggest effect will be on the 'medium-sized' acts, because the bigger acts will be able to afford shit anyway, whilst the smaller acts will be more able to slash costs. The medium sized acts will be stuck in the middle.

Loads of my English tech mates are sorting Irish passports and loads already have. Chatting to some and Dublin has come up as a possible base along with various European cities.