Ladyfest Table Quiz: Air Guitar for Your Brain. (1 Viewer)

[choking_tara]

can i just ask one thing? i'm not being smart, it's a real question. i'll be surprised if none of the bands that end up playing this end up having a boy or boys in them yet boys are excluded from getting involved with the set-up and/or running of the fest. what gives? i think people learn more from inclusion rather than exclusion. just an observation. if your purpose is to educate and dissemanate information, why bother excluding anyone?

Cos Sisters are doing it for themselves
Standing on our own two feet
And ringing on their own bells

 

[oh shit]

for themselves
our own two feet
their own bells

eh?

 

[Super Dexta]

takes her top off and dances with everyone. off stage.

That's like something I've always wondered.. you know the way that guys* taking off all their clothes at gigs isn't that unusual, and is generally recieved with amusement and the like... Do you think the reaction would be the same if, say at the Bradford fest, it had been two girls getting naked in the pit? I don't know if it would be, but I kinda doubt it.


*oh, ok, Glyn

 

[Ex-User (250)]

this is a bit of a cross-over, and shoot me down if this doesn't make sense but since kirstie is involved in ladyfest, shouldn't she have paid her thumped subscription? thumped is run by a big girl... makes sense to me.

 

[choking_tara]

eh?

Oh you'll get the Nuclear War quote and you won't get that!!!

You should learn to walk before you run, kiddo!

 

[Ex-User (250)]

That's like something I've always wondered.. you know the way that guys* taking off all their clothes at gigs isn't that unusual, and is generally recieved with amusement and the like... Do you think the reaction would be the same if, say at the Bradford fest, it had been two girls getting naked in the pit? I don't know if it would be, but I kinda doubt it.


*oh, ok, Glyn

there'll always be people who feel the need to get their kits off. personally, i'm wholly supportive.

 

[oh shit]

Oh you'll get the Nuclear War quote and you won't get that!!!

You should learn to walk before you run, kiddo!

haha - i know the song, i just never realised how muddled the grammar is. or something.

 

[oh shit]

That's like something I've always wondered.. you know the way that guys* taking off all their clothes at gigs isn't that unusual, and is generally recieved with amusement and the like... Do you think the reaction would be the same if, say at the Bradford fest, it had been two girls getting naked in the pit? I don't know if it would be, but I kinda doubt it.


*oh, ok, Glyn

i definitely would like to see more naked girls at gigs.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

i definitely would like to see more naked girls at gigs.

maybe this is something that could be rectified at ladyfest? i don't know, i'm just throwing it out there.

 

[choking_tara]

haha - i know the song, i just never realised how muddled the grammar is. or something.

That's fighting talk.

You cheeky fuck

haha

 

[jane]

can i just ask one thing? i'm not being smart, it's a real question. i'll be surprised if none of the bands that end up playing this end up having a boy or boys in them yet boys are excluded from getting involved with the set-up and/or running of the fest. what gives? i think people learn more from inclusion rather than exclusion. just an observation. if your purpose is to educate and dissemanate information, why bother excluding anyone?

LAdyfest isn't about exclusion. It's about women getting together to organise something. We recognise that both men and women are constrained by the gender constructs and their accompanying expectations, and we really have two aims. The first is to acknowledge that those of us women who feel more comfortable expressing our own types of creativity (which can be different from men's, though not always) around other women, can have a forum to work together and put those to use. When women feel empowered and confident in their own creativity, we can then feel better equipped to be more integral to the music/art/film scenes, which are, of course mixed in all sorts of ways (and better for it).

The second, equally important, aim is that the actual festival is fun for everyone, to show that women's art is fun for everyone, and not just a novelty. In a way, it's about re-appropriating the novelty status women's bands and art can sometimes be given.

Men aren't excluded at all. Our male friends (including you, Hag -- and we really appreciate it) are supporting us and contributing in lots of ways, just not part of the core group of organisers.

It's about overcoming the constraints we sometimes internalise, which are there in so many areas of our lives, and not necessarily explicit or overt 'oppression', and starting to put into action the idea that no one gives you power, you just take it. And by power, we don't mean 'power over', but 'power to'. Ladyfest is about breaking down all sorts of societal barriers, including, but not limited to, those of gender.

Does that make sense to you?

And, of course there will be some bands with boys in them. There are all-male bands doing benefit gigs.

 

[Super Dexta]

maybe this is something that could be rectified at ladyfest? i don't know, i'm just throwing it out there.

I think the proposals for foxy boxing and inter-scenester mud-wrestling were vetoed at the first meeting.

Seriously though, you, and Bernard, it was a serious question.

 

[oh shit]

That's fighting talk.

You cheeky fuck

haha

muso-fight! see you outside backbeat at sundown- bring your rarest 12" and i'll bring mine.

 

[choking_tara]

muso-fight! see you outside backbeat at sundown- bring your rarest 12" and i'll bring mine.

Can we not have a dance off...

to the Make Up!!!!

 

[oh shit]

That's like something I've always wondered.. you know the way that guys* taking off all their clothes at gigs isn't that unusual, and is generally recieved with amusement and the like... Do you think the reaction would be the same if, say at the Bradford fest, it had been two girls getting naked in the pit? I don't know if it would be, but I kinda doubt it.


*oh, ok, Glyn

ok seriously- how else would people react if not with amusement? i guess the guys would be less willing to dive in and mosh along, or maybe some would, maybe they'd dirty dance... but at the gossip gig it seemed to annoy more girls than guys. but those were mainly the type who stand at the back with their arms folded anyway. the general effect was that a lot of girls were up at the front dancing, i'd say 5 girls to 1 guy. coulda been influenced by the fact that HOWL promoted the show, HOWL being a queer club mainly frequented by women... but i'd say any visible woman up dancing on stage- naked or not- would positively redress the balance of girls in the pit... chicks on speed in belfast springs to mind as a relevant example.

 

[oh shit]

Can we not have a dance off...

to the Make Up!!!!

haha- we tried that on halloween 2002, remember?

this time it'll be sober, not at 4am, and not after dragging my hifi downstairs.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

listening to tonnes of hardcore doesn't make you a muso, bro
my money's on harris and his arthur russell erection

andrew

 

[Super Dexta]

ok seriously- how else would people react if not with amusement? i guess the guys would be less willing to dive in and mosh along, or maybe some would, maybe they'd dirty dance... but at the gossip gig it seemed to annoy more girls than guys. but those were mainly the type who stand at the back with their arms folded anyway. the general effect was that a lot of girls were up at the front dancing, i'd say 5 girls to 1 guy. coulda been influenced by the fact that HOWL promoted the show, HOWL being a queer club mainly frequented by women... but i'd say any visible woman up dancing on stage- naked or not- would positively redress the balance of girls in the pit... chicks on speed in belfast springs to mind as a relevant example.

I'm glad you have a positive spin on it [no sarcasm]. Maybe I've had too many bad experiences with people's* attitudes to ladies, but I would've expected an attitude more along the lines of "what an attention-seeker/slut".


*When i say 'people', of course, I don't necessarily mean 'men'... but that's another thing again

 

[Ex-User (250)]

LAdyfest isn't about exclusion. It's about women getting together to organise something. We recognise that both men and women are constrained by the gender constructs and their accompanying expectations, and we really have two aims. The first is to acknowledge that those of us women who feel more comfortable expressing our own types of creativity (which can be different from men's, though not always) around other women, can have a forum to work together and put those to use. When women feel empowered and confident in their own creativity, we can then feel better equipped to be more integral to the music/art/film scenes, which are, of course mixed in all sorts of ways (and better for it).

do women really lose confidence in expression around men? i am fully and wholey behind it but i really really am at odds with guys being excluded in any way. i think it only serves to reinforce any boundary you percieve to be there. so many guys have no appreciation for the points you mentioned in your reply... would it not be better for women to educate these people? learn from example and all that...

The second, equally important, aim is that the actual festival is fun for everyone, to show that women's art is fun for everyone, and not just a novelty. In a way, it's about re-appropriating the novelty status women's bands and art can sometimes be given.

but how does male exclusion have any effect on this?

Men aren't excluded at all. Our male friends (including you, Hag -- and we really appreciate it) are supporting us and contributing in lots of ways, just not part of the core group of organisers.

Men aren't excluded at all. Our male friends ... are ... just not part of the core group of organisers.

It's about overcoming the constraints we sometimes internalise, which are there in so many areas of our lives, and not necessarily explicit or overt 'oppression', and starting to put into action the idea that no one gives you power, you just take it. And by power, we don't mean 'power over', but 'power to'. Ladyfest is about breaking down all sorts of societal barriers, including, but not limited to, those of gender.

ok, but i think it would make a lot more sense for you to verbalise these internalised constraints and educate guys on them by including them in every aspect of what you're doing. i know i for one would benefit from this. i am not sexist as i see it but being a guy, i'm certainly not fully aware of all imparities girls encounter in everyday life and would like to be educated.

 

[oh shit]

listening to tonnes of hardcore doesn't make you a muso, bro
my money's on harris and his arthur russell erection

andrew

hey - i've got the soul jazz and rough trade art russell re-issues. but you're right, i'm only a faux-muso. i liked that matador comment earlier btw