Fynal chut (1 Viewer)

[TenRabbits]

And where does Avid sit in this equation?
and yes, I've been known to do contract work on both Avid and FCP, but never Premiere. Seems to me, Premiere is primarily used by animation companies... Prolly cos it's an Adobe product.
I'd like to see Premiere try and stand up to the Avid behemoth.

Well.. Avid are essentially not interested in the market at the level of FCP.. I know there's Express Pro etc, but it was really a fop to be seen to have something at that level, all the avid folks I've spoken to are not really too fussed one way or the other what happens with it. We use Avid primarily for drama/docs/light ent etc, and fcp is news/short edits. Rarely do they overlap. Adobe is aiming at that market specifically.. to the point where I've had meetings with the development team at Avid with them essentially building the next Pro to fit the audience.

It's unlikely Avid is going anywhere at the high end of things, but the desktop editing market is all to play for. I prefer Final Cut massively to premiere, but it's not my choice - it's how much it costs.

 

[Goodbye]

Surely the beeb are using avid newscutter? Final cut would be a bit too advanced for self-op news types no?

an eh... "Avid are essentially not interested in the market at the level of FCP"
Cutting major studio feature films is not a good level?

It's not that I'm anti Avid (I use it when I have to, and my FCP keyboard is layed out identically so I can migrate easily), they just seem a bit smug is all... More and more people are choosing FCP, mainly because of its affordability, but mostly because you don't have to be a technician to operate the bloody thing.

 

[the bongo]

...yep I'm a broadcast engineer at the beeb.

Ah, if I'd known that a year ago I could have asked you all the work questions I had then. Ah well, found the answers in the end anyway.

I think it's a mis-step to make a distinction between high end and desktop editing these days. Avid has been pushing that dichotomy, trying to maintain its high-end rep. They certainly do good systems, but a quick look under the hood of any editor shows pretty much the same set of components. Now that apple has 800,000 users out there for FCP and every college grad going into broadcast, video, and film has FCP on their CV there will be a gradual shift towards FCP in the older companies with entrenched systems and editors, and a quick jump in the newer and smaller companies. Avid will have to drop its prices and push the low end editors harder too compete in the next few years.

Apple is starting to compete in the ingest, playout arena too, and various developers are doing systems for news ingest, cuts only editors, and management.

From recent research, I know that most of the new stations in the last few years went straight to FCP. Adobe has After Effects as their flagship product and I think they're hoping that Premiere will ride its coattails to popularity (because of the workflow integration). That will likely push them towards the post houses rather than broadcasters.

Could all be bunkum though.

Bongo and g-st.. yep I'm a broadcast engineer at the beeb. I know what you mean about not believing things til you see them too bongo.. I'm extremely skeptical about the red - but I'd love it to be true!

Yeah. I saw it, it looked good. I got in line for it (like a fool), so I'm quite eager too.

 

[the departed]

for what its worth, im going in to my final year in film school and theres NOTHIng done to promote final cut whatsoever. we dont even have systems on campus to cut on. which is funny as 80% of the class have FCP themselves. 1 person uses premiere and another uses vegas.
its all avid avid avid avid.

 

[Goodbye]

Where you studing?

It's good to learn Avid though. They are getting you ready for the industry and FCP is NOT the industry standard, Avid is. N'out wrong with learning by "the book"*

I learned to cut on a 6 plate Steinbeck and I can't tell you how much I VALUE that education. Served me well.





*seriously though, if you don't learn the Avid platform your going to have a real hard time finding work after you graduate... (but you already know that)

 

[the departed]

Where you studing?

It's good to learn Avid though. They are getting you ready for the industry and FCP is NOT the industry standard, Avid is. N'out wrong with learning by "the book"*

I learned to cut on a 6 plate Steinbeck and I can't tell you how much I VALUE that education. Served me well.





*seriously though, if you don't learn the Avid platform your going to have a real hard time finding work after you graduate... (but you already know that)

iadt...
youre dead right..and i do know avid as well..i just think they should have both. final cut has its place up there with avid. and as a(partime)freelance editor i ALWAYs get asked to cut in FCP. (not that that is a huge deal).
i also learned how to use a steinbeck voluntarily..its good to practice linear cutting. it makes you FAR more critical about how you cut something..
but anyways i dont specialise in editing. im a sound designer/composer and a director first. and im a good cinematographer as well but im still getting to grips with that.

 

[TenRabbits]

Surely the beeb are using avid newscutter? Final cut would be a bit too advanced for self-op news types no?

Depends on where you are.. we have no newscutter - it's all fcp at desktop editing level. There is an element of the news types having technical difficulties with fcp - it's easier to get yourself in knots with it alright.. half of my support time is spent trying to figure out just what the hell setting has been messed with!

Cutting major studio feature films is not a good level?
It's not that I'm anti Avid (I use it when I have to, and my FCP keyboard is layed out identically so I can migrate easily), they just seem a bit smug is all... More and more people are choosing FCP, mainly because of its affordability, but mostly because you don't have to be a technician to operate the bloody thing.

I understand that fcp has some entry in the feature market, but to me this is the missing the point about avid.. the strength for us is that it's essentially a top rate media database with an editing package stuck on top. It comes with various pieces of proprietary hardware that enable multiple editors/super quick rendering etc. I know that hardware convergence and availability is making this less important these days, but in somewhere like a media corp where it's likely to be multiple editors working in incredibly short timescales rather than a specialised team working on a single project for the duration I think Avid still has the edge. I also happen to think it's easier to use than fcp! Put it this way.. we have more avids than fcp stations and I have far fewer issues on a daily basis with the avids, and that's with non-craft staff using both! Altho Avid's version bollockery causes more problems than anything.

Sorry I didn't know you had some questions about stuff bongo! Ah well - if you have any others let me know.. although I can't promise I'll know I'm sure I know someone who will!

It's a very interesting time for editing, as the main issue isn't the package any more.. it's the media. Server based storage and
the multiple formats (it's crazy how many formats are out there these days.. bring back good ol' 8, 16 or 32 mil!) are buring issues - so the company that answers these question will win the corporate war.

 

[Goodbye]

I understand that fcp has some entry in the feature market, but to me this is the missing the point about avid.. the strength for us is that it's essentially a top rate media database with an editing package stuck on top. It comes with various pieces of proprietary hardware that enable multiple editors/super quick rendering etc. I know that hardware convergence and availability is making this less important these days, but in somewhere like a media corp where it's likely to be multiple editors working in incredibly short timescales rather than a specialised team working on a single project for the duration I think Avid still has the edge. I also happen to think it's easier to use than fcp! Put it this way.. we have more avids than fcp stations and I have far fewer issues on a daily basis with the avids, and that's with non-craft staff using both! Altho Avid's version bollockery causes more problems than anything.

I prefer FCP by a country mile, although when I used Avid unity for the first time, I was blown away.
Setting up an xsan here soon. I presume it works under a similar protocol.
Also, I hate the way Avid HAS to create it own files of no matter what your imposting, whereas FCP simply refers to files. Much betterer.

 

[Goodbye]

iadt...

Great collage

 

[the departed]

by the way if ya'll find yourselves(or anyone else) reaching for the library music more often than you should, hit me up with a PM cos im specialising in scores and soundtracks. have loadsa samples of my work. 4 films with my music are in galway etc etc etc..
cheeers.

 

[Goodbye]

Shameless

 

[the departed]

Shameless

such is the nature of the industry.

 

[the bongo]

orry I didn't know you had some questions about stuff bongo! Ah well - if you have any others let me know.. although I can't promise I'll know I'm sure I know someone who will!

Thankee sir. Too late now though, the telly station is built already.

Ian, how big is your new xsan going to be?

 

[Goodbye]

Don't know yet. We're just looking into it...

 

[Goodbye]

Anyone elsr go to that FCS2 seminar in the morrison yesterday?
Color is amazing.
Compresser improvements are deadly.
Everything else you know from the website really.
And unless you have an 8 core mac pro, you arn't really going to see the benefits of an open format timeline in realtime.
Final Cut Server looks pretty sweet also.
AND it's only 700snots as an upgrade from ANY previous version of Final Cut you have! Time to dust off those old discs lads.

 

[the bongo]

Yeah, color and server do look good. I know that server is just a repackaging (well, sort of) of artbox, which was around for a while and so is relatively stable and useful. A pretty amazing price for a DAM system though, $999 for ten users and $1999 for infinite users makes it really tempting for major institutions looking to save on the masses of cash spent on other systems. I do know, however, of another company bringing out another thing that does something either similar or complimentary (depending on how you look at it) in a very interesting way - a way to track what stuff is used in what project or other file. can't say more as i signed an NDA.

I remain wary of color, though I was impressed by the various demos at NAB.

 

[Goodbye]

I do know, however, of another company bringing out another thing that does something either similar or complimentary (depending on how you look at it) in a very interesting way - a way to track what stuff is used in what project or other file. can't say more as i signed an NDA.

Go on spill... Nobody reads the internet.

I'll wait for an update before I upgrade. Apple have a tendency of rushing out product before its finished, then ironing out the bugs with constant updates...
Although Color IS based on an existing program, so it could be all right.
Fingers crossed that companies like MAgic Bullit and Natress will have plug ins or presets for Color soon enough. Mad impressed with it I was.

 

[the bongo]

Go on spill... Nobody reads the internet.

I'll wait for an update before I upgrade. Apple have a tendency of rushing out product before its finished, then ironing out the bugs with constant updates...
Although Color IS based on an existing program, so it could be all right.
Fingers crossed that companies like MAgic Bullit and Natress will have plug ins or presets for Color soon enough. Mad impressed with it I was.

tell you later. both colour and final cut server are based on pre-existing software. the latter on something that was in wide use and known to be stable, the former was known to be buggy and difficult.

 

[Goodbye]

Good ole thomann keepin the cost down

http://www.thomann.de/ie/apple_final_cut_studio_2_upgr_engl.htm