Fight For Women's Right to Choose! (3 Viewers)

[broken arm]

don't you mean mass?

piss off church and/or science boy

 

[oh shit]

you'll thank me if you're ever caught drink driving on the moon, brokan arm.

 

[broken arm]

you'll thank me if you're ever caught drink driving on the moon, brokan arm.

amen.

i mean, SATAN.

 

[Lefty Frizzell]

Is there another subject where I am for and everyone else is against?

You posting on thumped.

 

[Janer]

 

[BC]

Ok.....
If people have an opinion on something and they post here fair enough but to just advertise a controversial rally in the way 4 post in 2 years Socmot did is bollocks.....

freedom of speech includes the freedom to disagree. and that is why, janer, i will always choose not to merely ignore something i find objectionable, but rather call you out on your bullshit. in your view it's completely fine to regurgitate your ignorant, scantimonious and blinkered opinions but its not ok to mention an event which you disagree with. bullshit.

As I said b4 Janie Jones the vast majority of unborn babies don't invade and occupy/murder in foreign countries....

ridiculous bullshit.

A small percentage do, most just use it as a contraceptive because they have being caught.

idiotic bullshit.

you trying to bully people by sending them abusive pms whenever they do so makes you a complete fucking scumbag by the way.

i too have been on the recieving end of one of janer's abusive and verbally stunted private messages. it's really more a reflection on who he is far more than anything else.

How many pages do you reckon this thread's gonna be before Janer gets bored of winding people up?

the thing is, janer is NOT trying to wind people up: it's totally sincere on his part, everything he says on here is.

aaahhh because someone is against abortion they hate women chestnut.

no, its not because of your pro-life views that people think you are a chauvanist. it is because you are consistantly disrespectful towards women on here.

excellent.

 

[Janer]

We're finished Bri?????

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Ok I'll chime in with my truppence worth.
I don't think anyone except mad misanthropes are ever pro-abortion really.
I'm broadly speaking anti-abortion but I think it should be legal in certain well defined circumstances. Ultimately though my say doesn't count for much because it's not my body and bar some amazing advances in body modification I'll never get pregnant so won't fully have to deal with this issue. It is an unresolvable issue essentially because most people have very strong beliefs about it one way or another and arguments rarely persuade anyone of anything.

 

[Buzzo]

Re. loads of the posts on this thread and all the other threads about abortion ever:

Debates about abortion so frequently decline into commentaries on Janer's mysogyny/refusal to articulate responses/stupidity.

People become quite abusive towards him. I appreciate that Janer is subtely and often openly abusive to women on this forum but I don't necessarily think responding to him with abuse is going to have much of an impact on his actions or the opinions of others who wish to restrict the freedom of women/promote life chances of foetuses/be nasty to females (I'm not saying outright that these aims are one and the same, just traits that Janer seems to exhibit to me. They are traits often found in common in one person. 'sayin).

I think it undermines the arguments of people who are trying to promote or argue for choice, and it has happened that people who disagree with the pro-choice argument have accused pro-choice people on this forum of resorting to 'shut up Janer' instead of articulating their point in favour of a woman's right to choose. I don't think this is true (e.g. a million awesome, clear and well argued posts on various threads by lots of different people) and I understand why people often do just want to tell Janer to shut up but it can really undermine the debate when people respond to abuse with further abuse, and direct their energies into shouting back across the fence at Janer. Absolutely no offence intended to people who are venting, I just wanted to share that.

Janer- sorry for posting about you in the third person, it's just a little easier and less confusing but I'm talking to you too.

See all you stupid bitches/faggot sympathisers at the march

 

[Mormon Nailer]

You posting on thumped.

I met him

 

[Squiggle]

I don't think anyone except mad misanthropes are ever pro-abortion really.
I'm broadly speaking anti-abortion but I think it should be legal in certain well defined circumstances.

This pretty much sums up my position on the issue too. I hope that I will never find myself in a situation where I would personally have to make a choice.

With regard to the example of a woman with 4 kids not wanting/being able to afford more type scenario, there are other medical options - such as vasectomy or tubal ligation - which could be taken to prevent someone having to make the traumatic decision to terminate a pregnancy.

 

[Buzzo]

With regard to the example of a woman with 4 kids not wanting/being able to afford more type scenario, there are other medical options - such as vasectomy or tubal ligation - which could be taken to prevent someone having to make the traumatic decision to terminate a pregnancy.

And if that preventative decision wasn't made do you think she should be forced to carry the child to term?

Are vasectomies/tubal ligations any less traumatic than abortion? Is preventing future fertilisation (and permanently impeding the ability to procreate simply because you are poor.... (can you get vasectomies on the medical card?)) a better option? For whom? Imaginary foetuses that were never created? Sorry.... I don't really get your point Skiggler.

 

[Squiggle]

And if that preventative decision wasn't made do you think she should be forced to carry the child to term?

Are vasectomies/tubal ligations any less traumatic than abortion? Is preventing future fertilisation (and permanently impeding the ability to procreate simply because you are poor.... (can you get vasectomies on the medical card?)) a better option? For whom? Imaginary foetuses that were never created? Sorry.... I don't really get your point Skiggler.

Both procedures can be reversed. If the decision has been made that further children would be impractical or financially crippling then they are options that could be considered.

This isn't about imaginary foetuses for me... but if women do want to be able to control their own bodies, surely tubal ligation, in the case of someone who doesn't want to become pregnant again, is something that would be doing just that, where abortion would be a reactionary measure, and any unwanted pregnancy an inconvenient and uncomfortable alternative for however long it was continued before termination.

 

[Buzzo]

Both procedures can be reversed. If the decision has been made that further children would be impractical or financially crippling then they are options that could be considered

This isn't about imaginary foetuses for me... but if women do want to be able to control their own bodies, surely tubal ligation, in the case of someone who doesn't want to become pregnant again, is something that would be doing just that, where abortion would be a reactionary measure, and any unwanted pregnancy an inconvenient and uncomfortable alternative for however long it was continued before termination.

I take your point and I agree that preventative measures are surely infinitely favourable to women rather than having to make a decision to abort. That being said, preventative measures are preventative measures. None are 100% safe, various situations compromise a person's freedom to choose or use preventative measures, and, people change their minds or circumstance change after a person may have chosen to have a baby and done the bumpin and grindin. Preventative measures should be promoted, but accompanied by the option of post-coital reproductive choices in order to optimise the freedom of the womb/gee holder.

Oh, and, those operations, I ask again, available on the med card? To minors? Should they be? Would having yer tubies touched be any less traumatic for the woman than an abortion? I haven't really thought about it much to be honest.... always seemed like a bit of a drastic measure. Actually, while I'm aimlessly rambling, I've been told that men under a certain age (mid thirties?)cant' get their pipes tied.... surely this implies that there is a danger of irreversibility/damage whatever... I should really read up on this shit.

 

[Janer]

This lady never had problems with contraceptions.

 

[Squiggle]

I take your point and I agree that preventative measures are surely infinitely favourable to women rather than having to make a decision to abort. That being said, preventative measures are preventative measures. None are 100% safe, various situations compromise a person's freedom to choose or use preventative measures, and, people change their minds or circumstance change after a person may have chosen to have a baby and done the bumpin and grindin. Preventative measures should be promoted, but accompanied by the option of post-coital reproductive choices in order to optimise the freedom of the womb/gee holder.

Oh, and, those operations, I ask again, available on the med card? To minors? Should they be? Would having yer tubies touched be any less traumatic for the woman than an abortion? I haven't really thought about it much to be honest.... always seemed like a bit of a drastic measure. Actually, while I'm aimlessly rambling, I've been told that men under a certain age (mid thirties?)cant' get their pipes tied.... surely this implies that there is a danger of irreversibility/damage whatever... I should really read up on this shit.

Do your foresee abortions being available on the medical card? I can't imagine that the medical card currently pays for trips to England (or wherever) to clinics. The example given of the woman with too many children presents a possibility of a need for multiple abortions, which would surely be extremely traumatic, physically, hormonally and, possibly, emotionally.

75% effectiveness in reversals of vasectomies and 98% for tubal ligation, according to Wikipedia. Tubal ligation doesn't seem to be much more invasive than some of the hormonal birth control methods available, with the advantage of only requiring to be done once - and it doesn't have any adverse effects, no weight gain, no change in hormone balance - although menstruation does continue.

I'm not completely certain about the age limitations on vasectomies, I need to do some research too, but they are outside the remit of women controlling their bodies I guess I merely mentioned it as another option for couples who do not wish to produce results from their lovemaking, or for women (or men) who do not want to have children, whatever their reasons.

I can understand that there are circumstances, rape, risk of death to the mother and others that would need to be taken on a case-by-case basis and I think it is wrong that these women should have to deal with the added stress of having to deal with the current situation.

 

[billygannon]

When is it okay to have an abortion during a pregnancy?

You see this is the really strange thing. My partner says she felt our baby move at 8 weeks - she said she could feel a fluttering. Now that may have just been excess wind, but she's convinced it was the baby.

And recently a woman gave birth to a baby at 22 weeks. The baby has subsequently survived.

There is a stage during the pregnancy when you really can't consider the baby to be just a foetus. When exactly that changeover happens I haven't a clue.

It should be legal. But I have the scan of our baby at twelve weeks and she really does look like a person. To be honest, it can happen that woman won't find out she's pregnant until twelve or thirteen weeks.

The morning after pill should be more readily available in Ireland.

 

[mazzyianne]

I think 'legal in certain well defined circumstances' sounds like the worst idea ever.
I mean, what then?
Who chooses if you're suicidal enough or if you really were raped, if you're poor enough or unstable enough? The courts? You have to go and sit in court, discuss the most intimate details of your life and have someone you've never met before decide how the rest of your life is going to go? How long will this take?
I'm pro-choice coz I think the only person who knows if a woman is ready and able to have a kid is the women herself.

 

[Buzzo]

Do your foresee abortions being available on the medical card? I can't imagine that the medical card currently pays for trips to England (or wherever) to clinics. The example given of the woman with too many children presents a possibility of a need for multiple abortions, which would surely be extremely traumatic, physically, hormonally and, possibly, emotionally.

75% effectiveness in reversals of vasectomies and 98% for tubal ligation, according to Wikipedia. Tubal ligation doesn't seem to be much more invasive than some of the hormonal birth control methods available, with the advantage of only requiring to be done once - and it doesn't have any adverse effects, no weight gain, no change in hormone balance - although menstruation does continue.

I'm not completely certain about the age limitations on vasectomies, I need to do some research too, but they are outside the remit of women controlling their bodies I guess I merely mentioned it as another option for couples who do not wish to produce results from their lovemaking, or for women (or men) who do not want to have children, whatever their reasons.

Sorry, that was just me rambling on about shit I didn't really know about. Again, I agree that preventative measures are ideal, as are people making responsible choices. However......

I can understand that there are circumstances, rape, risk of death to the mother and others that would need to be taken on a case-by-case basis and I think it is wrong that these women should have to deal with the added stress of having to deal with the current situation.

If I may ask Squiggle, what criteria do you think would merit an automatic refusal to obtain an abortion? This is probably a really leading question/ me looking for an opportunity to bark some more but I would like to know...

Like,would you deny an abortion to a broke single woman who takes all the necessary precautions but still gets pregnant? Would you believe her if she told you that story?

It's just that, like Marianne said, I really can't imagine a process where a woman's moral worth/level of responsbility is judged without completely compromising her dignity. I may be wrong but I imagine that such a process would not appeal to many women and many women with unwanted pregnancies would continue to feel compelled to travel abroad/get backstreet abortions rather than go through such a difficult and indignified process.

 

[broken arm]

there working to lesson the number of doctor visits required in the uk.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6242382.stm