Disco Disco (1 Viewer)

[stephenoblunt]

really? I hadn't noticed

Why not explain it for me sir...

 

[redflaremist]

don't you realise its a bit close minded to assume that all "alternative" musicians have the same beliefs as you ?

I wouldnt think it close minded but I suppose I was just seeing it from my own perspective - in that music is important to me, and it influences me a lot. I think that if you listen to "alternative" (christ, I hate that term, but it will do for now!) music then it would follow on that you have "alternative" ways of thinking, or acting, or interacting with the world.

I guess its a learning process - and I'm not trying to be condescending here - but even if you start off asking yourself, well why exactly am I into different music from the mainstream? And what exactly is different about it?

I think the answers you get from a simple couple of questions like this cascade into an array of different answers, and further questions stemming from these. For me, these inevitably lead to issues such as: who controls the distribution of music, radio stations, TV stations, access to media, gig promotions? etc.

And then questions around those lead to questions about power and who controls what you (can) see and hear around you. And again, when you find about more about who these people are, you realise that their interests are not just the music you listen to (and purchase), but the clothes you wear, the food you eat, even the air you breathe.

Again, and I'm not trying to put anyone down, especially Herv (very nice guy), but I think if you're interested in alternative music then it cant end there.

For me, being interested in non mainstream "politics" (if you want to call Disco Disco that) is an extenstion of being interested in non-mainstream music (and methods of distribution - often as important as the music itself), and vice versa.

And I think most, if not all, of the Disco Disco people would share common music tastes with people on Thumped, and would support independently promoted gigs and records above mainstream acts and MCD, and even one of the reasons to get an autonomous centre going was so that people like Things You're Missing and the like would have a place to meet and even bands could practice in eventually (Disco Disco were doing it for the kids!), so... yes it is somewhat disheartening when you read comments from people involved in an alternative music scene slating the efforts, citing stuff like "the law" and other such bollocks as a reason for not attempting this in the first place.

 

[egg_]

people roaming the streets of Ireland wearing Celtic shirts

Outside Croke Park yesterday, along with the usual "hats, scarves and headbands" in county colours, there were people selling Celtic jerseys Strange thing to see at a hurling match ... didn't see anyone wearing one though
Go on Wexford

 

[Latex lizzie]

Outside Croke Park yesterday, along with the usual "hats, scarves and headbands" in county colours, there were people selling Celtic jerseys Strange thing to see at a hurling match ... didn't see anyone wearing one though
Go on Wexford

...if you go down to the woods today..etc..

 

[donnacha]

...support independently promoted gigs and records above mainstream acts and MCD...

I think that a blind rejection of things that are 'mainstream' is as pointless as blind acceptance of same.

For example, the neptunes [ production team for tons of amazing hip-hop and justin timberlake], Timbaland, Missy, these people are all fully signed up members of the 'mainstream' and they kick ass.

That a gig is 'independently promoted' is no guarantee of quality and that a gig is propoted by MCD is no guarantee that it's shite.

The same applies to records on a major label vs records on an independent label.

I think it's great to have an awareness of the machinations of consumer society, government and so on. However, I think there are just as many people within the 'underground' or 'alternative' movements [musical or political] who are impressionable and easily led as in the 'mainstream'.

Essentially, I think we should all make up our own minds. The fact that I think it's ridiculous to try to defend squatting in someone else's building and don't like the 'crusty' lifestyle doesn't make me an idiot. Just because others do, it doesn't make me think that they're idiots.

...yes it is somewhat disheartening when you read comments from people involved in an alternative music scene slating the efforts, citing stuff like "the law" and other such bollocks as a reason for not attempting this in the first place.

It's a pity you feel like this. I've been releasing records through independent labels and been involved in what some [not me] would describe as an 'alternative scene' for years but that doesn't necessarily mean that my political views are going to match yours. 'I don't think 'The law', as you so beautifully put it, is 'bollocks', I think it's what allows us to live together in a civilised society.

I think that you have to do the best you can within the limits you have. I believe in operating within the law, not without it.

I realise that some people are not happy to do this, oppose the entire system and want to destroy it [even though many have no idea what to replace it with].

However, I think it is interesting to note that it is the rights granted to us in the constitution, guaranteed by LAW, which allow people to express these opinions without being locked up or executed as would happen in many other countries.

I don't like getting drawn into internet rants and I'm not so conceited as to think that my opinions are so important that anyone else should care about them. However, I just thought I'd share.

Rant over.

 

[rothko]

I hate e learning too

 

[donnacha]

I hate e learning too

we all do. It's only a temporary measure though. you still at it?

 

[c4o]

http://www.christiania.org/

 

[egg_]

I'm not so conceited as to think that my opinions are so important

Everyone's opinions are important:
"No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of they friends' or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind" (from Devotions on Emergent Occasions, by John Donne)

 

[egg_]

However, I think there are just as many people within the 'underground' or 'alternative' movements [musical or political] who are impressionable and easily led as in the 'mainstream'

I agree with this.
But it's very easy to dismiss those who are not with those who are, which is A Bad Thing. The existence of leftie fools doesn't mean that leftie-ism is foolish

I think it's ridiculous to try to defend squatting in someone else's building

You mean you can easily expose any arguments in favour of squatting as laughable? I doubt you, sir.

 

[donnacha]

I agree with this.
But it's very easy to dismiss those who are not with those who are, which is A Bad Thing. The existence of leftie fools doesn't mean that leftie-ism is foolish

You mean you can easily expose any arguments in favour of squatting as laughable? I doubt you, sir.

Ah now egg, don't go putting words in my mouth.

I never said leftie-ism was foolish, in fact quite the opposite.

I also never called any argument in favour of squatting 'laughable'. Your words, not mine.

I'm amazed by the amount of unused property in the city but I wouldn't dream of going... 'hmmm I'll have that'. At the end of the day, it's owned by *someone* and it's bad karma to just take it.

In 'annie hall', woody allen's character describes himself mockingly as a bigot, adding 'but for the left, which is ok'.

That was my point really. Being blindly anti-mainstream is as bad as being blindly mainstream.

In a somehow related tangent, I think it's very interesting how 'No Logo' is now, ironically, a major brand in itself with an attendant lifestyle and set of attitudes. People wanting to 'buy into' anti-consumerism. Hmmm.

They're selling hippy wigs in woolworths man, the greatest decade in history is drawing to a close.

 

[egg_]

Ah now egg, don't go putting words in my mouth.
I never said leftie-ism was foolish, in fact quite the opposite.

Just worried that you were going to do a Kevin Myers - should have known better. Sorry. Totally agree with your main point about blind anti-mainstream-ism being as bad as its opposite

I also never called any argument in favour of squatting 'laughable'. Your words, not mine.

Em ... didn't you?

I think it's ridiculous to try to defend squatting in someone else's building

Are these two things not equivalent?
I chose the word 'laughable' on account of the root of the word here http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ridiculous ... please forgive my intellectual show-offery, I didn't think I'd be called on to explain

 

[donnacha]

Em ... didn't you?

Are these two things not equivalent?
I chose the word 'laughable' on account of the root of the word here http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ridiculous ... please forgive my intellectual show-offery, I didn't think I'd be called on to explain

ok, if you want to get semantic on my ass, go ahead.

I still say that trying to assume ownership of something that clearly isn't yours is tantamount to theft.

It's something that I wouldn't do. Bad Karma.

On the other hand, I've never been homeless so maybe I should shut the hell up.

 

[egg_]

I still say that trying to assume ownership of something that clearly isn't yours is tantamount to theft.

It's something that I wouldn't do. Bad Karma.

Here's what I think:
If you own some of a limited, in-demand, resource (e.g. land) and aren't using it, then there should be a way of voiding your ownership. The notion of 'ownership' shouldn't get in the way of real people's real needs for the resource.

I realise there are laws that do allow the voiding of ownership, but, looking around Dublin, it seems that they're not strict/enforced enough. The only way that's going to change is pressure/action from the citizenry (e.g. squatting)

 

[krystal]

Here's what I think:
If you own some of a limited, in-demand, resource (e.g. land) and aren't using it, then there should be a way of voiding your ownership. The notion of 'ownership' shouldn't get in the way of real people's real needs for the resource.

I realise there are laws that do allow the voiding of ownership, but, looking around Dublin, it seems that they're not strict/enforced enough. The only way that's going to change is pressure/action from the citizenry (e.g. squatting)

I read somewhere that one of the biggest reasons for buildings lying vacant and unused is because they get tied up in legal wrangles which usually come about when someone dies intestate and / or the deeds can't be found. In that case the building lies empty until someone can prove sole or agreed ownership or comes up with the deeds.

 

[donnacha]

Here's what I think:
If you own some of a limited, in-demand, resource (e.g. land) and aren't using it, then there should be a way of voiding your ownership. The notion of 'ownership' shouldn't get in the way of real people's real needs for the resource.
QUOTE]

I have an old analogue synth that I haven't used in about 2 years, does that mean that it's now permissible for you to assume ownership of it?

 

[egg_]

I have an old analogue synth that I haven't used in about 2 years, does that mean that it's now permissible for you to assume ownership of it?

No
Land is a strictly limited resource and people need it to live. Unused (or misused) land in the centre of big city has a real cost to society - land prices (and therefore rents) are artificially pushed up, people are deprived of an amenity. An unused synth sitting in a flat somewhere doesn't

 

[LMD64]

Here's what I think:
If you own some of a limited, in-demand, resource (e.g. land) and aren't using it, then there should be a way of voiding your ownership. The notion of 'ownership' shouldn't get in the way of real people's real needs for the resource.
QUOTE]

I have an old analogue synth that I haven't used in about 2 years, does that mean that it's now permissible for you to assume ownership of it?

what old analogue synth do you have? you're not selling it, by any chance, are you?

wishful thinking, i guess...

 

[silo]

property (meaning land and what gets built on it) is different to possessions. that's a truism, but one that gets forgotten. property owners and the law see them as the same thing; you can go on possessing more and more property (within certain weak constraints) as long as you can buy or inherit. the logical conclusion is one person owning everything.

'property', as understood in this way, makes no sense. proudhon said 'property is theft', not meaning that we should all share our shoes and houses and synthesisers, but that there is no reason why land and the amenities built on it cannot be held in common. blah. boring anarchist history.

 

[donnacha]

what old analogue synth do you have? you're not selling it, by any chance, are you?

wishful thinking, i guess...

no but as a valuable resource, which I don't want to deprive anyone of, I'm actually letting someone else use it at the moment and that's not me being sarcastic, it's true.



Just to be anal, it's not *strictly anologue anyway. Roland Juno 60 - digitally controled oscillators, analogue filters.

Sounds flippin' fantastic though, big chorus effect, spent about a week when I first got it just playing 'Jump' all the time.