Co-Operative Meeting (1 Viewer)

[Knacker]

Right. There's going to be a get together of heads about setting up a co-operative among independent labels within Ireland. It's going to be on a weekend day at the end of May/start of June.

There's a very strong argument for this to happen. There is a glass ceiling for independent music within this country in that the various labels don't have the resources to take it outside of Ireland.

A co-operative is an option that would allow the various labels to retain their independence, but will also mean they can reap the benefits of operating together. It will mean that there will be one VAT number that the labels can use when claiming back tax on operational costs. There are also numerous other benefits from doing this (and there will be a lot of politics... have to flag that).

I've been in touch with a legal eagle about this and the model seems fine. I've been in touch with specific people about this already and will be getting in touch with others over the next couple of weeks. If you are interested drop me a line.

I have to stress this point. I have no interest in working in music. Once this is set up I don't want to be involved. I just firmly believe it's a good idea and should be given serious consideration.

 

[Squack]

[QUOTE

I have to stress this point. I have no interest in working in music. Once this is set up I don't want to be involved. I just firmly believe it's a good idea and should be given serious consideration. [/B][/QUOTE]

you tell em billums.... you are one serious mutha fucka bro!

 

[Bluto]

ThingsYou'reMissing do a similar enough role as this in Dublin. It's not as business like but since the organisation is nearly there it could expand to take this role. Yea/Nay?

 

[egg_]

Billy is a ThingsYou'reMissing head - and this is him trying to expand this role ...

 

[egg_]

Originally posted by Knacker
I have no interest in working ... I don't want to be involved

I see

 

[Alex]

Billy, that's a great idea but if you aren't going to look after it (mind I don't blame you, it's totally understandable) then there's no point to discuss it unless you find someone else to do it. This I think should be the first item on the agenda for your meeting

A.

 

[snap-apple]

Originally posted by Bluto
ThingsYou'reMissing do a similar enough role as this in Dublin. It's not as business like but since the organisation is nearly there it could expand to take this role. Yea/Nay?

its something that was mooted at the first TYM meeting and it's been brought up regularly since but it does involve becoming slightly more organised and business-like which TYM is not ready for yet. but they'd probably work in tendem as i imagine alot of the same heads would be invovled.

 

[Pantone247]

can we call it a symposium instead of a meeting?

 

[old]

Here, Billiette.
I'm away in foreign May 30 to June 3 but I would like to go along.
However, claiming back VAT means charging VAT and doing proper accounts. Would that be worth the saving??
You don't actually need a VAT number unless you have big turnover.

 

[Wicker]

nice one Billy

 

[stunning]

I wonder if the new collective (which I think is a good thing for distribution) will be not-for-profit or for-profit. Of course, selling work is good.

Just wouldn't want to to see Things lose their non-profit identity.

Yeah?

Thomas

 

[old]

This isn't intended to be Things-related, I think.
Which is probly why it's posted here and not there.

 

[Knacker]

Well, here's what I think (Ron Healy style!)

Things You're Missing is vital to the independent music scene in Ireland. And it should be open-ended. I believe that Things You're Missing should be a collective of all people involved with the independent music in Ireland and ultimately some sort of critical mass can develop from it. I think it should about sharing information, ideas, contacts and other such stuff and dealing with issues that are common to everyone involved with independent music.

However, there is a wide cross-section of styles of music which is being released independently. Lumping very dissimilar bands together doesn't work. Hence say for instance Cargo and RMG rejecting the idea of taking a bunch of records from a wide range of very different bands from Things.

This co-operative idea is a business idea that would suit labels who want to release their music outside of their city and Ireland. Now, there could be more than one co-op coming from this - certain labels may not feel comfortable being associated with other labels. But I'm convinced of this idea because it allows the labels to retain their independence and it allows them to benefit from being part of a bigger group.

From the people I know who are running labels, I see them doing loads of work. Maybe I'm being really simple here, but there are things like pressing records or printing out flyers or album covers that could be done on a collective basis. It would be easier to organise this if there's a structure in place to encourage it and it would reduce the workload for each individual label.
I'm going to be inviting along this fellow John Connolly who is an accountant who wants to work in music. He is holding classes on book-keeping which are very cheap and will make it a lot easier for labels to keep their books in order. It's also possible that he can act in an advisory role in all of this.

I don't want to be involved in this in the long-run because very simply there's nothing in it for me. I'm not in a label. I'm not in a band. I'm quitting the Ballroom at the end of the year, and anyway, there's four others involved with that. And I don't want to make money from other people's creative efforts. But I do believe that if I have this idea and if I have these contacts there's no point in me keeping them to myself. All the stuff is there. I wasn't in a position to put this to people this time last year. But I am now. It's just something I think these labels should do. And yeah... this is something I'm making clear now because there's no point in me saying I'll do something when I won't follow it through.

I'd like to see this/these co-operatives being a part of Things You're Missing. They may not release the same types of music, but that's no reason for them not to share information and ideas. The various labels in Ireland are too small to make any real impact. But if groups of them work together, then they've got a better chance of bringing their music to a wider audience.

 

[#10-7]

i'd like to help.
i'll be a this meeting. unless its before the 27 of may...

 

[egg_]

Billy
I don't mean no disrespect now, but you're going to have to do a pretty good job of selling this to the labels. What are the actual, concrete benefits of this co-op? You think the VAT situation would be improved - how? What are the exact implications for accounting - how often would we have to submit accounts to the VAT people, how detailed do they have to be? The collective pressing etc thing is very vague - do you have more detailed ideas on this?
I don't want an answer now, but I'm sure most of the labels won't want to go to a meeting where you say I think the co-op would be a good idea but don't have detailed, concrete reasons why - saying "there's a glass ceiling and if we have critical mass we can overcome it" isn't going to convince anyone. Like it or not, it's your baby at the moment and your going to have to get it to the stage where it's attractive

 

[Wooly]

Its a good idea, aye - the 'collective breaking the glass ceiling' idea is a valid one also, methinks - but cross-genre label recruitment pardon the fancy language will be a tough job.

For example - The band I'm in is chili-esque funk/hip hop. Unashamedly mainstream, and decidedly not congruous with the TYM/Thumped modus operandi. We're also running a label to front the band in the indie outlets, yet would be hesitant to become involved/associated (a shameful way to be in these times of co-operation) with a co-op of starkly dissimilar genre'd acts and labels - A view that will most likely be held by most small labels regarding this setup.

BUT - It's a damn fine idea. using (gasp) BMG as a model, an encompassing of smaller labels under one big representative group would definitely help focus the smaller labels' market, and would be a learning curve for all, regarding who listens to your music, where, and why.

I'm intrigued

Woolbot

 

[egg_]

Originally posted by Wooly
Its a good idea, aye - the 'collective breaking the glass ceiling' idea is a valid one also

Yes ... like 'world peace' is a good idea. How is the question. Details is what we need, a PLAN, not just an objective

Edit: sorry I hope I don't seem too negative ... it's just I don't want to sit around in The Lord Edward with Ross, Joss, Hag, whoever, all arguing about whether becoming a co-operative is a good idea without any concrete facts to base our arguments on ... and then even winding up registering as a co-operative, having to all submit accounts to the taxman etc but really not being any closer to ... well, selling records in anything but piddling numbers

 

[Pantone247]

Originally posted by egg_
... it's just I don't want to sit around in The Lord Edward with Ross, Joss, Hag,

yeah

I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a pencil

then I'd look like this

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by egg_
Yes ... like 'world peace' is a good idea. How is the question. Details is what we need, a PLAN, not just an objective

People more than details I guess...

Assuming this is going to work, the VAT thing is actually feasible and the labels are interested... WHO is going to look after it?

People involved in THiNGs are smart and committed but they all have day jobs, bands, girlfriends or wives, side-projects, etc.
To run such a cooperative is kind of a part-time job: you'd get to be responsible in front of the lables involved, you'd have to learn accounting and book-keeping, deal with CD manufacturing companies, independent promoters, venues, etc.

This can be done only by someone who really cares and is willing to invest a lot of time and energy.

For instance I wouldn't do it because I know I'm too busy already and would definitely fuck up.

To cut a long story short, if Billy isn't going to do it, who else will?

 

[Ex-User (1487)]

that's pretty much what i said to billums when he told me about this last week. if there are concrete benefits to be gained from all this, and that remains to be proved, then it will take one individual, if not a couple, to work on it almost full-time. one way this could be achieved initially would be to have a co-op monthly subscription fee. if it turns out that there are in fact a load of labels willing to get involved, this fee could turn out to be minimal and help pay for this person to invest their time. but this person would have to be a certain type of person, the job wouldn't be suited to just anyone. i barely have time to sleep right now and i'm assuming most of the people who put out records and have a day job are in the same boat...
i'll be going to the meeting alright, but i'll be listenin and fighting with 'joss and ross' over who is the biggest gayass...