BREXIT (8 Viewers)

[Lili Marlene]

I think it's a fair point. it's a fairly cowardly thing for parliament to do, pretty much an abandonment of their duty and washing their hands of the decision, no? They're elected to represent with a bit of wisdom and knowledge, fucking represent! Making dumb decisions and being a racist goes across all classes.

I'm ambivalent at best about Irish referendums at the best of times (I know it's a constitutional thing over here, but still), sure it was great that we voted in gay marriage but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have been brought in anyway. If the Oireachtas was actually forced to make those kind of decisions maybe we'd vote in less parish pump politic fuckwits?

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

If the oireachtas was forced to do anything they'd just postpone it indefinitely until they were sure what the most temporarily crowd pleasing option was. I agree in principle with the idea of leaders leading but I don't know if it's realistic.

 

[rettucs]

Isn't that one and the same though? "This lot won't vote the way we want them to so we just won't have a vote".

who is this 'we' you speak of?

The 2 main things the Leave campaign pushed on the poor;

1: Immigration - which is a non-issue if Britain want something similar to the 'Norway deal'. Freedom of movement will be part and parcel of any arrangement.

2: 350 million a week to be put into the NHS. A lie, as admitted by Farage less than an hour after the result was called.

So if you think theres any dignity or honesty in the outcome being decided by misinformation (lies, basically), then fine. However, I don't.

They weren't though, this has been rumbling away for years now, the writing should really have been on the wall when UKIP started to steal masses of votes, even from Labour. Instead the issue was essentially ignored with any protest raised shouted down and by the time people started to listen it was too late.

UKIP got 3.9 million votes in the last general election. Theres more going on here than UKIP.

Its heartbreaking to read the comments by some people this morning - 'foreigners' living in London and elsewhere in the UK, wondering what their future holds.

 

[rettucs]

On Scotland, I don't see it as a foregone conclusion that they will vote for independence, any more than they'll be guaranteed entry to the EU, Spain will certainly protest that.

Its pretty much a foregone conclusion. If you listened to Nicola Sturgeon's speech you'd know that. In fact I'd go as far as to suggest that its already informally been agreed with Europe. Within an hour of the vote being called she had already secured agreement from the EU for direct involvement in any decisions impacting the UK, and by extension, them.

What's more in doubt is Northern Ireland. Obviously it won't sit well to be part of a united republic. But, if they stay in the UK they go against the wishes of the majority who want to remain in the EU. But independence isn't really an option for them, given 2/3s of their workforce are civil servants. I suppose their decision is whether being in the UK or the EU serves their interest best.

 

[rettucs]

why offer the uk a nice trade deal as it will just encourage other countries to do the same.

the other things they don't fully appreciate is;
1: the level of anger in Europe about what's just happened
2: If and when Scotland break away from the UK and stay in the EU, I can see them being rewarded in relative terms by it being made more than worth their while having decided to remain. Obviously they won't be given preferential treatment over other EU countries, but relative to the deal the rest of Britain gets, they'll consider they're doing very well.

Its not practical to cut the UK off completely, but I'd not be surprised if there weren't plenty of people considering what the landscape of the world would look like, were we to do that.

 

[rettucs]

I think it's a fair point. it's a fairly cowardly thing for parliament to do, pretty much an abandonment of their duty and washing their hands of the decision, no? They're elected to represent with a bit of wisdom and knowledge, fucking represent! Making dumb decisions and being a racist goes across all classes.

I'm ambivalent at best about Irish referendums at the best of times (I know it's a constitutional thing over here, but still), sure it was great that we voted in gay marriage but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have been brought in anyway. If the Oireachtas was actually forced to make those kind of decisions maybe we'd vote in less parish pump politic fuckwits?

Its fairly telling that they've already said that theres no rush in invoking article 50 (formally initiating the process to leave - the point of no turning back). As it stands, nothing is binding. Parliment could, technically decide to ignore the outcome of the referendum - hard to see that happening all the same.

I've heard some comments about how Boris Johnston secretly wanted remain to win and that now that leave has won, hes terrified. He hasn't a clue what to do now.

As for Farage, watching him speaking reminds of that wanker David Quinn over here. Who appointed him spokesperson? He has no mandate from any section of the population to represent them.

What a mess.

 

[David Kronenbourg]

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[Theseus Mock]

Hopefully Scotland calls another IndyRef soon, I imagine Nicola will call it before the actual divorce from the EU which gives them a couple (or more) years depending on the extent of bureaucracy. Scotland will then be in a similar situation to ourselves with a land border so hopefully we can organise some sensible deal with the EU.

Anyone watching the Prime Time Bexit special last night? Ian Paisley Jr was interviewed by Miriam O'Callaghan. Never in my life have I ever wanted to punch someone so badly. Watch Prime Time Brexit Special online (begins @ 12m45s). What a cunt.

 

[Unicron]

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One upside of this is that whenever your prick colleagues starts doing the thick mick spiel in work you can come back with "you voted for Brexit"

 

[David Kronenbourg]

Loads of Brits in work seriously considering applying for Irish passports

 

[Unicron]

Loads of Brits in work seriously considering applying for Irish passports

Any worth marrying?

 

[nooleen]

tell them we have very strict immigration requirements

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

who is this 'we' you speak of?

The 2 main things the Leave campaign pushed on the poor;

1: Immigration - which is a non-issue if Britain want something similar to the 'Norway deal'. Freedom of movement will be part and parcel of any arrangement.

2: 350 million a week to be put into the NHS. A lie, as admitted by Farage less than an hour after the result was called.

So if you think theres any dignity or honesty in the outcome being decided by misinformation (lies, basically), then fine. However, I don't.



UKIP got 3.9 million votes in the last general election. Theres more going on here than UKIP.

There is more going on than UKIP, and more going on than those ads.
The English have a natural antipathy to the EU having a say in their affairs; they do not love the European project the way most of the other members do. The way we do, the way the French and Germans do.
Any vote in the UK on Europe starts with a very solid wedge of voters in the Leave column.
The campaign arguments only stir things up so much.

The fervent anti-immigrant block size is already known - it's the UKip vote. 3 or 4 million votes.
Polling to leave was always in the 40s before any bus or 350-million-a-week showed up.

The idea that this was decided on misinformation belies the fact that this was always going to be a close run thing.

People who know and have lived in England the longest wanted out. It's regrettable, but they aren't all evil or stupid.
And it was not a con.

 

[David Kronenbourg]

 

[therealjohnny]

And now my Facebook Brexit pals are moaning about sore losers and that they're bored with it all.
Like it was a fucking game of darts and everyone should just accept it and move on.

 

[rettucs]

And it was not a con.

It'll be interesting if they can find a way to quantify voter regret. It seems substantial but whether its substantial enough to have made a difference could they do it all again, would determine if it was a con or not. A lot of what I'm seeing and reading about those regretting their decision mentions how they were fed lies and half-truths and voted based on these.

Those saying the older generation have essentially decided what kind of future (or lack thereof) the younger generation would have brought to mind the (hopefully) upcoming referendum on repealing the 8th amendment. Basically, a load of old codgers and biddies deciding on the rights of other people. I guess democracy just doesn't work sometimes.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

who is this 'we' you speak of?

So if you think theres any dignity or honesty in the outcome being decided by misinformation (lies, basically), then fine. However, I don't.

UKIP got 3.9 million votes in the last general election. Theres more going on here than UKIP.

Its heartbreaking to read the comments by some people this morning - 'foreigners' living in London and elsewhere in the UK, wondering what their future holds.

It's your hypothetical elite deciding against a referendum on the basis that the plebs are misguided fools who don't know whats good for them.

Everybody lies, its politics. When can we expect WW3 to break out?

I'm not arguing that its purely a UKIP thing but, like it or not, they are the vanguard of the British eurosceptic vote.

Perhaps if people had listened to and acted upon the comments of the general public wondering what their future holds for the past 20 years we wouldn't be where we are today.

Its pretty much a foregone conclusion. If you listened to Nicola Sturgeon's speech you'd know that. In fact I'd go as far as to suggest that its already informally been agreed with Europe. Within an hour of the vote being called she had already secured agreement from the EU for direct involvement in any decisions impacting the UK, and by extension, them.

I've read Sturgeons speech, she expressed her desires in asking/demanding that their be direct involvement by Scotland in the process, her asking does not mean that her request will be honoured

A European commission spokeswoman declined to comment on Sturgeon’s remarks, or whether EU officials would enter into talks with the Scottish government. “If there is a request [for talks], I am sure there will be a response, but I cannot offer any comments on things that have not happened,” she said.

I doubt anything has been informally agreed with Europe, we're talking about a bureaucracy of 27 member states each with their own particular view on any given matter, that she could reach even an informal agreement with these 27 states in such a short period of time would seem preposterous.

I would have thought that the last few years have shown that there are no foregone conclusions when it comes to British politics.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

As for Farage, watching him speaking reminds of that wanker David Quinn over here. Who appointed him spokesperson? He has no mandate from any section of the population to represent them.

He's sat in the European Parliament for nigh on 20 years now, that represents a mandate from the people of South East England. He's also head of the most prominent eurosceptic party in England, a party that brought about this referendum, it would be bizarre if he wasn't passing comment on this topic.

Basically, a load of old codgers and biddies deciding on the rights of other people. I guess democracy just doesn't work sometimes.

When you look at the numbers, it’s quite fascinating. The youngest voters wanted to stay in wide margins, and the oldest voters wanted to leave.

And that’s the exact opposite of who turned out to vote. Older voters turned out, younger voters did not. So it didn’t matter if the overwhelming majority of millennials preferred to remain in the EU, they simply didn’t vote to express that opinion.

Brexit is what happens when millennials don't vote - AMERICAblog News

My sympathy is limited. If you want something you act on it, lying in bed then pissing and moaning about the result online won't change anything.

 

[rettucs]

He's sat in the European Parliament for nigh on 20 years now

LOL

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

LOL

You said he doesn't have any sort of mandate, I've just shown you that he does.