April Budget (2 Viewers)

[Cryptid]

I was referring to the income between €75 and €100k.
That money was at 1% previously and now at 4%.

This is a lot of people's 'gravy'. The money they spend on holidays, big purchases and the like.

I know what you mean and I could well be wrong, but I think for people on 80K (for instance), they pay 2% for the first 75K and then 4% for the next 5K. They don't, I think, go from 1% to 4%.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

Im fucked.

Job seekers benefit slashed for under 20's, rent allowance going down, tax on the minimum wage, income levy, and imminent impending college fee's of doom.


That's a bit of a hefty ass raping right thar.

which are you, a job seeker or a student? is a student entitled
to Job Seekers / Rent Allowance? does a Job Seeker have to
pay college fees?

at least you don't earn a hundred grand a year, you'd be ragin

 

[ann post]

my big fear with this recession really is that all the things about the boom that i didnt like, and all the people that i couldnt stand wont magically dissapear in the next financial year.

 

[Anarcho Munk]

which are you, a job seeker or a student? is a student entitled
to Job Seekers / Rent Allowance? does a Job Seeker have to
pay college fees?

Im stuck somewhere between the two until I decide what the hell i'm at.

I want to get a shitty job for a year or two so I can get a life and figure out my plans.

...i would go to college but I don't know what i'd like to do and it'd drive me insane to end up wasting the time and money on college fee's in a course I end up hating.

at least you don't earn a hundred grand a year, you'd be ragin

It's a hard life...

 

[nlgbbbblth]

we'll be worse off by this each month

€189 - extra child benefit [gone next year]
€116 - mortgage interest relief [going?]
€70 - increase income levy

plus if they means test the child benefit, that's another €332 gone.

Have to cut down on RAERs

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

I don't know how to get out of it. I am not an economist. That is not my point. My point is this was painfully obvious, and Brian Lenihan comes out uses words like benefit of hindsight.

There are people that exist that do know about economics.
You get a consortium together of the 6 best economics lecturers in the country, and 6 CEOs of Ireland's best businesspeople, they form an advisory group that Lenihan must listen to, and publicly explain why he is going to overrule if needs be.

For this service the members of this board will be given some sort of break in their income tax or something.



People exist that know about this. Gather them up, and use them. Lenihan and Cowen et al have already proven his inability to do the job.

There's no concensus in economic circles on the best way forward, they all have varying opinions and there's no magic economic bullet. It would be hard to even get concensus on who the best economics lecturers are.
And as for the best business people, you want Michael O'Leary or his ilk deciding public policy?
IBEC's solution to everything is tax cuts ("concessions") for business and cut spending. They wanted cuts in welfare payments in this budget. That kind of stuff is not viable in a democracy where you need some sort of popular support to govern.

Lenihan and Cowen may have proven their inability to do the job, but they've been elected to do it and we're stuck with them.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

I know what you mean and I could well be wrong, but I think for people on 80K (for instance), they pay 2% for the first 75K and then 4% for the next 5K. They don't, I think, go from 1% to 4%.

On that 5k they do.
It's 1% on that 5k today, it'll be 4% in May.

 

[IFF]

There's no concensus in economic circles on the best way forward, they all have varying opinions and there's no magic economic bullet. It would be hard to even get concensus on who the best economics lecturers are.

winston churchill used to say that if he asked the opinion of the best 6 economists in Britain, he'd get 7 different answers on best way to do public finance

but on to to the budget, on this front, garret fitzgerald writing in the irish times a few weeks ago said that from his time in government, there were 17 economists in the department of finance, now they're are only 3 or so. this he believed was a reason for mismanaging of the economy before this.

 

[pete]

So now you all know how the "pension levy" felt.

First, they came for the civil servants...

 

[ann post]

Lenihan and Cowen may have proven their inability to do the job, but they've been elected to do it and we're stuck with them.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

He's our man.

 

[Cryptid]

So now you all know how the "pension levy" felt.

First, they came for the civil servants...

I think they mentioned subsidised career breaks for public sector workers on the telly. Interesting.

 

[pete]

career breaks have always been available. why would they suddenly be subsidised?

are you thinking of the early retirement scheme he mentioned? actually i suppose it's sort of the same thing.

 

[Cryptid]

career breaks have always been available. why would they suddenly be subsidised?

To encourage people to leave, thereby reducing the wage bill..? They said, I think, the career break would be 3 years and 12.5K (per year?).

are you thinking of the early retirement scheme he mentioned? actually i suppose it's sort of the same thing.

No, I think they mentioned that also. Mind you I had a look at the speech and I couldn't find any specific mention of it.

If it's real, I'll be tempted. I took a career break before, but it was crap being broke.

 

[flashback]

There's no concensus in economic circles on the best way forward, they all have varying opinions and there's no magic economic bullet. It would be hard to even get concensus on who the best economics lecturers are.
And as for the best business people, you want Michael O'Leary or his ilk deciding public policy?
IBEC's solution to everything is tax cuts ("concessions") for business and cut spending. They wanted cuts in welfare payments in this budget. That kind of stuff is not viable in a democracy where you need some sort of popular support to govern.

Lenihan and Cowen may have proven their inability to do the job, but they've been elected to do it and we're stuck with them.

No consensus : correct, there will not be one opinion that all members of the council adhere to. But, the council can be set up so that decisions / compromises are reached in private, and announced through a single spokesperson. If someone on the council feels strongly enough against any decision they can leave and state why. There are no magic bullets either, but some choices are better than others. The goal should be to make good choices, keeping in mind that perfect is the enemy of good.

Best economics lecturers : Order by publication over the last 5 years.

Michael O'Leary / Tony O'Reilly et al. Yes. I want them on board too. Lance Armstrong may be a bullying asshole, but he can ride a bike. These people know something about the subject. They are not going to run the show, they are going to have to reach an agreement with a number of other people (say half of whom are academics). The rating of business person should include a metric that tries to measure the business they run's relationship with relevant trade unions.
IBEC has more to say than just "more tax cuts". Not all of them are even saying that at all.

This council would not be affected by popular opinon / democracy, it would be selected on merit and revised yearly. Also, the group's recommendations are not binding. They are recommendations or warnings to the elected person in charge.

What I am trying to say is, this is important. Things could get very bad. The decisions that are being made by Cowen etc have been proved to be very poor. At some point the seriousness of the problem has to admited and met with a serious solution, which changes something.
Because right now, the system is broken.

 

[Cryptid]

I tell a lie. I wasn't broke. But if one had an income while on career break, it would probably make it more attractive.

 

[pete]

i think miriam o'callaghan is going to batter someone

 

[pete]

No, I think they mentioned that also. Mind you I had a look at the speech and I couldn't find any specific mention of it.

the only reference I can see is on the Irish Times website:

Isme said Mr Lenihan "bottled it" and "utterly failed" to address current expenditure, in particular the public sector element.

"With tax revenues now at 2002 levels, there was scope to once and for all address the cost of the public sector and in particular the pay element. The Minister took the easy and wrong option, by once again delaying decisions on this huge element of current expenditure," Isme said.


It described the early retirement and career break initiatives as "cosmetic" steps that would have little impact in reducing the significant cost of the public sector.

 

[classic seanc]

One of the panelists on The Right Hook talked about their being a revolution if the ordinary average people got fucked over too much. But that wont happen. Because the ordinary average people voted FF, and will continue to do so, no matter what happens.

And THAT is why this country is not fucked. Our political stability has been built up by decades of not-thinking-too-much. That gives us a stable country full of maleable idiots, which is crucial in attracting foreign direct investment. We'll be grand lads, we'll be grand.

So now you all know how the "pension levy" felt.

First, they came for the civil servants...

I'm only 24 hours closer to retirement than I was yesterday you know..... !ninjaaaa

 

[Reets]

we'll be worse off by this each month

€189 - extra child benefit [gone next year]
€116 - mortgage interest relief [going?]
€70 - increase income levy

plus if they means test the child benefit, that's another €332 gone.

Have to cut down on RAERs

Free preschools seemed to have been mentioned by Lenihan on prime time, hopefully this'll make up for losing the childcare supplement.