So, erm, that article in the Times about the bank bailout everyone is reading (1 Viewer)

[pete]

i'm already down at least 15% on my take home pay over the last 2 years. not fun.

 

[maims bond]

i'm already down at least 15% on my take home pay over the last 2 years. not fun.

You work in the public sector as well, right? How much do you think could be saved by getting rid of all the people who get paid to push paper around? I'm consistently amazed by what people can get away with and the amount of money that is just poured into a black hole in the public sector. Efficiencies in this area would be more productive that a slash and burn approach IMHO.

 

[pete]

You work in the public sector as well, right? How much do you think could be saved by getting rid of all the people who get paid to push paper around?

i do indeed. the redundancy targets in the HSE are a good start.

I'm consistently amazed by what people can get away with and the amount of money that is just poured into a black hole in the public sector. Efficiencies in this area would be more productive that a slash and burn approach IMHO.

There's plenty of room for efficiencies alright, but it can't be done from the bottom up - there's just no support for it. Strange as this may sound to anyone used to dealing with 'front line' public services, there's just no culture of saying NO when it needs to be said internally.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

right - europe/ireland aside, is this summatiuon of world/great power economics correct?

china makes shit
america/europe buys shit in great quantities from china - their own industry declines
china lends money to america/europe to buy more shit
china buys countries to provide raw materials to make shit
goto 1.

is the western world assuring its own destruction by gorging on iPhones, cheap jeans and sparkly crap?
what happens to china when the rest of the world cant buy shit any more?, or defaults on their debt to china?

 

[maims bond]

right - europe/ireland aside, is this summatiuon of world/great power economics correct?

china makes shit
america/europe buys shit in great quantities from china - their own industry declines
china lends money to america/europe to buy more shit
china buys countries to provide raw materials to make shit
goto 1.

is the western world assuring its own destruction by gorging on iPhones, cheap jeans and sparkly crap?
what happens to china when the rest of the world cant buy shit any more?, or defaults on their debt to china?

WORLD WAR 3. At least we might be able to generate a war economy!

 

[maims bond]

There's plenty of room for efficiencies alright, but it can't be done from the bottom up - there's just no support for it. Strange as this may sound to anyone used to dealing with 'front line' public services, there's just no culture of saying NO when it needs to be said internally.

Not really sure what you mean about saying NO internally. My experience of working in this sector and knowing people that have worked in various other statutory agencies is an overwhelming sense of disillusionment and lack of any dynamism or vigour. Of course, this is by far the root of all our problems.

 

[pete]

Not really sure what you mean about saying NO internally.

just a general inability to say (or be supported in saying) NO to half arsed / wasteful projects. i'm talking fairly low level stuff but it all adds up.

My experience of working in this sector and knowing people that have worked in various other statutory agencies is an overwhelming sense of disillusionment and lack of any dynamism or vigour.

oh god yes. again, that shit comes from the top.

 

[shitepipe]

just a general inability to say (or be supported in saying) NO to half arsed / wasteful projects. i'm talking fairly low level stuff but it all adds up.



oh god yes. again, that shit comes from the top.

does the problem stem from the fact that there is basically a new boss every 4 years who wants things done their way? so no continuity or long term vision as to how the department will operate? or is the civil service relatively immune to ministerial changes?

 

[ann post]

there's always the theory that people who join the civil service do so because they are not the kind of people who take risks. People who take risks start a business or emigrate, or go to jail.

 

[pete]

does the problem stem from the fact that there is basically a new boss every 4 years who wants things done their way? so no continuity or long term vision as to how the department will operate? or is the civil service relatively immune to ministerial changes?

there's a bit of that alright but mostly departments go about their business regardless of who's technically in charge.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Whatever about the merits of Kelly's economic argument (which I don't consider myself informed enough to argue for or against), his political 'prediction' is ridiculous. If we were gonna have Jorg O'Haider runnign the show within 5 years, he'd be knocking about in the public sphere already. There are no signs of this.

I guess the irish version of this is that instead of a growth of an organised Nazi party or whatever everyone will just have their house robbed every second week?

does the problem stem from the fact that there is basically a new boss every 4 years who wants things done their way? so no continuity or long term vision as to how the department will operate? or is the civil service relatively immune to ministerial changes?

here in the private sector (well, my little bit of it) the management and therefore company focus changes about every 9 months or so....
Four years of one persons vision would be amazing

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I guess the irish version of this is that instead of a growth of an organised Nazi party or whatever everyone will just have their house robbed every second week?

burglaries are down according to the news the other day, although it seems that my parents house is one of the few in their neighbourhood not to have been broken into in recent times.

 

[Lili Marlene]

I see. Are the IRA recruiting again then? They were threatening bankers recently weren't they?

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

i forget which IRA that was.

 

[pete]

there's always the theory that people who join the civil service do so because they are not the kind of people who take risks.

no more so than the amount of people who opt for nice boring jobs elsewhere

 

[ann post]

no more so than the amount of people who opt for nice boring jobs elsewhere

I have no evidence to back up that theory. i read it in book about rural ireland written in th 1970's.

 

[Deleted member 3435]

I have no evidence to back up that theory. i read it in book about rural ireland written in th 1970's.

I got a civil service job that never materialised just when the shutters came down. I know why I wanted it.

 

[D0njo]

We should all go on a year long riot, like the feckin Greeks. Seriously though, most people still seem willing to go along with the status quo, even though everything's obviously falling apart...

 

[Scientician 0.8]

right - europe/ireland aside, is this summatiuon of world/great power economics correct?

china makes shit
america/europe buys shit in great quantities from china - their own industry declines
china lends money to america/europe to buy more shit
china buys countries to provide raw materials to make shit
goto 1.

is the western world assuring its own destruction by gorging on iPhones, cheap jeans and sparkly crap?
what happens to china when the rest of the world cant buy shit any more?, or defaults on their debt to china?

By that stage, hopefully, China is rich enough to consume much of its own manufactured goods output, and also seeks more international (especially luxury goods, which China is now the biggest market for) goods from Europe/Americas/Africa et al. Also, with rising affluence China ceases to be as competitive as it once was in the manufactory of cheap goods, so countries like Viet Nam, Bangladesh, or wherever attract that business. Automation might turn out to be a bigger game changer than China though in the next 50 years. Fabbing and all that lark.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

We should all go on a year long riot, like the feckin Greeks. Seriously though, most people still seem willing to go along with the status quo, even though everything's obviously falling apart...

Kent Brockman: Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
Professor: Yes I would, Kent.