new liverpool thread - everyone loves them (2 Viewers)

[Hector Grey]

i mean if he's taken a risk at the emirates with arse down to ten, or pushed for the winner against hull after coming back from 2 down.... ........................................................AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH. best season...it was the most frustrating season for twenty fucking years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[coast to coast]

our best season? what did we achieve? 2nd in the fucking league? out of the cup to everton? capitulaion at anfeild to chelsea in the cl? robbie keane and andrea dossena our banner signings that summer? best season? if benitez had any fucking cop, liverpool would have won that league, due to how poor chelsea and arsenal were, and the fact that spurs and city hadn't found their feet. that was his opportunity and he fucked it up. second is nothing. it's as good as fourth, as we know. seven home draws, to mickey mouse teams. SEVEN!!!

as for the champions league final in 05. the act of genius was bringing on hamman to reign in kaka. actual real tactical acumen would have been starting the cunt. 05 was a glorious mess. if it had been a tight first half, liverpool would have lost. but he had nothing to lose. so he did something he hasn't done since, he threw caution to the wind. and as for the 07 final. rafa brought on harry kewell and alvaro arbeloa and left bellamy on the bench and fucked it all away. which was so much more like him. chasing a european cup. take off a right back with two minutes to go......for a right back. just like against atlethico in the semi's of the euro-pot.

it wasn't a fluke, as you say, but he got lucky in the final. lucky he had steven gerrard. the player he tried to flog right after it too.

See you just did the exact same thing, Pick out all the shit bits of the season and blame them on the manager. We got 86 points last season very nearly won the league for the first time since maybe 95/96. United were European Champions with the World Player of the Year in their team and Rooney and a central defence that didn't concede a goal for about 20 hours.

And Chelsea finished with highest third place finish ever (I think) on 83 points for how "shit" they were.

Not to mention the brilliant pairs of wins over Chelsea, United and Real. You talk like it was easy to win the league last year and we've just been pissing about here, when in fact Benitez is one of the big reasons we're in that position, along with Gerrard and some his key signings, Torres and Reina, amongst the best strikers and goalies in the world respectively.

Of course losing to Everton was a shit and losing to Chelsea was shit, but they showed heart and played great football in the second leg at Stamford Bridge, even if we were done from the first leg. I've stated every time that Benitez has made plenty of mistakes and baffling decisions but you lads don't seem to want to give him any credit at all. Which, in my opinion is a nonsense, even if you are of the opinion that he should go now.

 

[coast to coast]

I will agree with you that it was probably our most frustrating season in 20 years also.
That doesn't mutually exclude it also being our best just cos we usually have our hopes dashed by November.

 

[Vinnie]

Not at all. I was a defender of Benitez until the middle of last season. In '05 the players won despite Benitez. If they had won it due to tactical genius I would concede that no problem but it was quite the opposite. Milan should have been at least 4 or 5 up at half time and well out of sight which would have been due to starting with Kewell, having Traore within 5 miles of the pitch and leaving out Hamman and Milan playing some pretty awesome football to boot. It was a mangement fluke because it should have been well over before he got to undo his original mistakes

My dislike of Benitez is perfectly rational.

Yeh, well I disagree with that. All you done is said that the players deserve the credit for when things go right and the manager deserves the blame when things go wrong because you're trying to argue against the manager.

It wasn't a "fluke"

 

[Hector Grey]

but we DIDN'T win the league!! and it would have been a succesful season if it were the starting point a better tilt at it, or building on it, but it wasn't, it was the pinnacle of what can be achieved with rafa in charge. compare our 0-0s with united 1-0s. wonder why fergie is so succesful?

 

[coast to coast]

You just did the same thing again. He undid his original mistakes. He did that. He fixed them. He went to three at the back, he brought on Hamann, he put Stevie at right back at 3-3 again. He started going after Milan by starting Kewell because he thought it was the right thing to do. I think he's earned enough tactical credit (by virtue of his European pedigree) to try something and if it doesn't work, change.

My memory of that game is that Milan had far more good chances in the second half, both before and after the 6 minutes, and before their second goal we could very well have had a penalty for Nesta handling it while lying the ground. In the first half we didn't actually play all that badly, but were undone by shocking play in the first minute and some real amazing quality for the second and third.

 

[Vinnie]

I don't even know what it is you think I keep doing. If we can agree to disagree about the Champions League final then we probably agree about the rest of it. Apart from Benitez being a mentaller clown who is dragging the club into a boring hole and should be sacked as soon as we can afford it.

You just did the same thing again. He undid his original mistakes. He did that. He fixed them. He went to three at the back, he brought on Hamann, he put Stevie at right back at 3-3 again. He started going after Milan by starting Kewell because he thought it was the right thing to do. I think he's earned enough tactical credit (by virtue of his European pedigree) to try something and if it doesn't work, change.

My memory of that game is that Milan had far more good chances in the second half, both before and after the 6 minutes, and before their second goal we could very well have had a penalty for Nesta handling it while lying the ground. In the first half we didn't actually play all that badly, but were undone by shocking play in the first minute and some real amazing quality for the second and third.

 

[coast to coast]

but we DIDN'T win the league!! and it would have been a succesful season if it were the starting point a better tilt at it, or building on it, but it wasn't, it was the pinnacle of what can be achieved with rafa in charge. compare our 0-0s with united 1-0s. wonder why fergie is so succesful?

Ferguson is successful because he has more money, more experience, a really well run club and he is a brilliant motivator who is driven by a limitless suply of pure bile.

Do you really think coming second and getting 86 points (after finising some way below that in the previous two seasons) is a bad season? If you do then we'll have to agree to disagree on that too.

 

[coast to coast]

vinnie, I guess we disagree on the Champions League Final.

I'll give you this: the performance of his team last year was a fucking disgraceful. In isolation, it would deserve a sacking. In fact, even in the context of what I consider to be a brilliant season, it deserves a sacking. Appaling lack of character and an appalingly negative style of puke football. Like I said though, I think our priorities need to lie elsewhere at this minute.

 

[Hector Grey]

05 is irrelevant now for so many reasons. okay, he undid his original mistakes, but he made those mistakes. and those kinds of nights are why you watch football. but it was a long time ago now. and of that team, 2 players remain. there's another point, he took that squad to his greatest triumph, then binned the lot of them. so that we could have jan kromkamp and mark gonzalez and andriy voronin and those stars.

but it was 5 years ago, and since then his power struggles have destabilsed the squad. he's an unknown quantity. it's not pleasant as a fan to await the teamsheet with trepidation.oh, a left back up front? cool.....

etc.

05, great night.
10. shit.

 

[Hector Grey]

Ferguson is successful because he has more money, more experience, a really well run club and he is a brilliant motivator who is driven by a limitless suply of pure bile.

Do you really think coming second and getting 86 points (after finising some way below that in the previous two seasons) is a bad season? If you do then we'll have to agree to disagree on that too.

just consider the games liverpool didn't win..... and should have.united proved that losing to your closest rivals doesn't matter as long as you beat the chumps. benitez has always had problems with the chumps. are we going to look back in ten years time at that? remeber when we came second? that was class. remember the class of 02? do you? they too came second.

although, it may be all we have to look back on in years to come at this rate.

 

[Hector Grey]

Ferguson is successful because he has more money, more experience, a really well run club and he is a brilliant motivator who is driven by a limitless suply of pure bile.

Do you really think coming second and getting 86 points (after finising some way below that in the previous two seasons) is a bad season? If you do then we'll have to agree to disagree on that too.

fergies teams have always had a win at all costs approach. benitez is don't lose at all costs manager, in the way that wenger is a play the game correctly and fuck the result anachronism. liverpools last thropy..2006, arsenal's, 2005. since then what have united won? 3 leagues, a european cup, one final lost, a few league cups and a few more kids from the b team coming through. even his shit players (and he has plenty) play their cocks off for him. noone would play like that for benitez. he wants to win by arithmetic.

 

[coast to coast]

fergies teams have always had a win at all costs approach. benitez is don't lose at all costs manager, in the way that wenger is a play the game correctly and fuck the result anachronism. liverpools last thropy..2006, arsenal's, 2005. since then what have united won? 3 leagues, a european cup, one final lost, a few league cups and a few more kids from the b team coming through. even his shit players (and he has plenty) play their cocks off for him. noone would play like that for benitez. he wants to win by arithmetic.

I agree with you on a lot there. He does want to win by an almost mechanical logic. He expects a lot of his players and seems to give them very little back in retrospect. But look at his record. He won La Liga twice and the UEFA Cup with the third/fourth biggest team in Spain. He won the Champions League and F.A. Cup and improved the standing of Liverpool in Europe no end over the last 5 years, and very very nearly won the Premier League with that style with the third or fourth best team in England with that style. He's not a shit a manager.

Like you, I can't stand the horse-trading or the ultra-pragmatic approach but I will defend his record and his successes. I won't try to defend this year but he's not a shit manager is my main point.

The Chelsea team that won the league this year because they put up a challenge against a much much much worse United team than we came up against and appropriately won the league with the same amount we gained last season.

 

[Hector Grey]

i'm not saying he's a shit manager, just that he's a mentaller and i wish he'd fuck off.

 

[oh shit]

05 is irrelevant now for so many reasons. okay, he undid his original mistakes, but he made those mistakes. and those kinds of nights are why you watch football. but it was a long time ago now. and of that team, 2 players remain. there's another point, he took that squad to his greatest triumph, then binned the lot of them. so that we could have jan kromkamp and mark gonzalez and andriy voronin and those stars.

but it was 5 years ago, and since then his power struggles have destabilsed the squad. he's an unknown quantity. it's not pleasant as a fan to await the teamsheet with trepidation.oh, a left back up front? cool.....

etc.

05, great night.
10. shit.

Most of those signings were not his first choices but were made to keep balancing the books while trying to develop the team the way he wanted it to play. United, Arsenal and Chelski's outlay on players in the same period doesn't bear comparison and you know it. His style would have looked a lot better had we had the money to get his top targets when they were going - that's yr vidic, alves, etc.

Still the fact remains we're not going to get anyone different let alone better as long as the club is disappearing down a black hole, which is exactly what's happening now and has nothing to do with Rafa.

 

[Jerry Twig]

Jaysis, what's going in here?
Cool the jets lads, we're shit.

 

[I Bleed Black]

1 League title flushed down the jacks through bad decisions (2008-2009),

I have to take issue with this, I've heard it from a number of people but I just can't agree with it. Benitez had us playing well above ourselves last season and most of the football we played in the second half of the season wouldn't have been out of place at anfield in the 80's.

 

[Cormcolash]

just consider the games liverpool didn't win..... and should have.united proved that losing to your closest rivals doesn't matter as long as you beat the chumps. benitez has always had problems with the chumps.

That's the truth of it right there. You can lose all your games against your closest rivals, but still win the league if you just beat all the dopey teams you play. The same has been true in Scotland forever. Celtic would have won the league this year and last year if they had just beat the fucking stupid teams, despite losing most matches against Rangers.

 

[washingcattle]

Adebaouyor and Ireland and £40 million for Torres and Gerrard ? Corm it's half of your dream scenario.

 

[Wheels]

Adebaouyor and Ireland and £40 million for Torres and Gerrard ? Corm it's half of your dream scenario.

Stop reading The News Of The World and stop encouraging Cormless.