Referendum 2012: It's On (3 Viewers)

[Unicron]

I think we have to vote No on this and would be extremely foolish not to.

A lot of whats in the treaty makes sense, but not (from my gombeen understanding of it) all of it and not how its being laid out. If we vote No then we can be sure there'll be a second vote in due course (Richard Bruton confirmed this last week). But the second vote will be following a 'visit' from the heads of Europe to Ireland to see why we're unhappy with it, and how we can be appeased. In the meantime it'll become clearer as what Hollande's take on things are and whether the treaty we're signing up to is going to prove little more than a shackle for Ireland while the rest of Europe gets on with their recovery.

I don't think I've seen this covered anywhere, if Hollande does get his way and renegotiates the treaty post May 31 and we've voted yes on it does that make the vote pointless? Will we have to vote on the renegotiated one again as that's not what we voted for.

 

[rettucs]

I don't think I've seen this covered anywhere, if Hollande does get his way and renegotiates the treaty post May 31 and we've voted yes on it does that make the vote pointless? Will we have to vote on the renegotiated one again as that's not what we voted for.

I don't know that for sure. From reading the Irish Times letters page it would seem that, as the treaty will no longer exist in the form it was voted on, we would need to vote again.

Its completely pointless holding this referendum now. Another reason to vote No in my view.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Are these real labour tds or is it an internet joke thing?

Fintan O'Toole had a good article on the referendum yesterday. That and this one have me convinced the whole thing is stupid.

 

[IFF]

i thought most labour td's were over 60 so i'd be dubious of the authenticity

 

[shower another shower]

“WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Europe could strengthen its monetary union by giving European politicians the power to declare a sovereign state bankrupt and take over its fiscal policy, the former head of the European Central Bank said on Thursday in unveiling a bold proposal to salvage the euro.

The plan offered by Jean-Claude Trichet, who stepped down last November as ECB president, would address a fundamental weakness of the 13-year-old single currency, the survival of which is threatened by the Greek crisis.”

This is what's on the cards, though, it won't be Euro politicians taking over. European mega-bank overlords be calling the shots when shit can't be paid back.

 

[chris d]

just when i thought i couldnt get any more jaded with politics this thing and it's crappy campaigns came along.

ive normally just gone along with the euroside, but my gut is saying no this time. i'll probably just draw a picture of a cat on my card.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I was so sure that I didn't know which way to vote that i didn't bother transferring my vote to somewhere that i could vote and now i want to vote no. vincent browne makes another convincing case for no here

 

[Unicron]

I still don't know which way I'd vote if I were around to vote on Thursday but the timing of Sinn Fein going to the courts today when the statement they're complaining about happened on the 3rd of May is a cynical douche move.

 

[pete]

I was so sure that I didn't know which way to vote that i didn't bother transferring my vote to somewhere that i could vote and now i want to vote no. vincent browne makes another convincing case for no here

This sums it up for me:

I will vote No to reject the incorporation of stringent fiscal rules into our constitution, not because adherence to fiscal rules is not sensible but because, in our political culture, such adherence will be done at the expense of the lower paid.

 

[rettucs]

I still don't know which way I'd vote if I were around to vote on Thursday but the timing of Sinn Fein going to the courts today when the statement they're complaining about happened on the 3rd of May is a cynical douche move.

Yes. I think if you listen to the arguments from the Yes campaign you'll be put off voting Yes. Likewise those on the No side.

I've been ignoring both for the last while and have tried to make up my own mind based on bits'n'bobs I picked up here and there.

I'll be pushed to find time to vote but I hope I'll be able to. And I'll be voting No if I do.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I'm voting no fwiw. I haven't heard a single compelling argument to vote yes. Although I suspect it might pass as the No campaign has been woeful.

 

[oh shit]

I'm voting no fwiw. I haven't heard a single compelling argument to vote yes. Although I suspect it might pass as the No campaign has been woeful.

I would vote no, if I was in the jurisdiction. It is utter madness to sign away all control of monetary policy to the interests of commercial banks. Indebted EU countries need to increase government spending in the short term and get cash back into circulation to rebuild revenues in the long term. Pretty simple solution, and it works almost every time. It's just a fucking shame that here in the UK we have the power to do it but won't, because we also happen to have a government run by and for banks and toffs.

 

[ann post]

I just sat and read the stabilty treaty booklet articles 1-14.

Article 12 Page 16 pretty much seems to be based around setting up some sort of organization out in europe that will be able to impose sanctions on us (see Article 8.2) which can be adjusted essentially by the majority members of europe (see Article 2.1) at will. For that reason I'm pushed to a no vote.

An Ireland internal adoption of the logical financial safeguarding outlined all too briefly in article 4 while not adopting a position to be sanctioned from would be a much more democratic and logical strategy.

 

[therealjohnny]

Seems like a solid argument for a yes vote...and I just read a solid argument for a No vote earlier

I just don't know anymore

http://thebowlerfiles.wordpress.com...rish-no-vote-in-the-eu-fiscal-compact-treaty/

 

[theoootini]

this prettty much sums up my opinion.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/colette-browne/fiscal-treaty-referendum-vote-will-be-just-an-illusion-of-democracy-195613.html

i'll be voting yes however.

 

[Jim Daniels]

Is there a polling card for referendums? Mine never arrived. Haven't moved house or anything. Just never got one....

 

[therealjohnny]

You should have got one. But you just need to bring your passport or birth cert to your usual polling station

 

[Jim Daniels]

Grand! Cheers.

 

[pete]

Just added a poll

 

[rettucs]

Storming early lead for No in the thumped poll.

This could reflect the actual poll. People wanting to vote No will be more likely to make the effort to vote at all.