Water Charges (3 Viewers)

[Gambra]

Yeah absolutely, the only somewhat dodgy section was that Baggot St/Kildare St junction. It was being surrounded mainly by Eirigi heads and they're the ones who threw water bottles at the gardai. Even then, when that's the worst thing to happen it's not that bad at all.

The turnout was amazing for 1pm on a freezing cold Wednesday in December.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I had a ball. Great day, I have never been prouder of my countrymen. Decent turn out and good atmosphere. The amount of 5-O around the Dáil was mental. At one stage I was at the barrier on Molesworth St and the crowd was pretty small. I'd say there was 1 cop for every 3 of us protesting at. The barrier on Setanta Place had maybe two dozen protesters but a similar amount of riot cops forming a line across Kildare St at the Royal College Of Physicians. Went back down to O'Connell Bridge/Street then and lots going on down there too but eff all cops.

 

[Unicron]

As for total crowds I'd say it was 50/60k. Def not 100k like Right2Water were saying but also def not 20k like the Gardai and RTE were reporting, it was too packed to be that low. The fracturing of the crowds didn't help the "mass" of it.

The Irish Times are saying that some crowd estimation app had it at 32

 

[pete]

well if an app said so

 

[Cormcolash]

I was at the protest when it was on Nassau Street. The front had reached Merrion Square and the back was still at the start of O'Connell Street. That's not 30,000, that's 50,000+.

 

[nooleen]

was it the Irish Media Protest Undermining app?

 

[magicbastarder]

*apparently* mary lou mcdonald said it had to have been more than 80,000 because there were more people there than would attend an all ireland, and *apparently* she's never been to an all ireland final.

 

[dudley]

but will it make *any* impact?

 

[magicbastarder]

i've still not seen any polls on the topic of support for water charging. a lot of people i've talked to are supportive of the idea (with the obvious caveat re the creation of irish water itself, etc.) but no-one has been able to tell me just how much support the anti-charges protest has.

i know people who went to the march yesterday as an anti-austerity gesture, but who are agnostic on water charges. so mixed messages from them

 

[therealjohnny]

POLL: So Why Didn’t You Bother Your Hole Going To The Protest? | Waterford Whispers News

 

[therealjohnny]

i've still not seen any polls on the topic of support for water charging. a lot of people i've talked to are supportive of the idea (with the obvious caveat re the creation of irish water itself, etc.) but no-one has been able to tell me just how much support the anti-charges protest has.

i know people who went to the march yesterday as an anti-austerity gesture, but who are agnostic on water charges. so mixed messages from them

I think because R2W is made of of different groups with different viewpoints there are mixed messages being sent out

I think the "water is a human right" phrase is coming across as slightly hyperbolic, not focusing enough on the anti-privatisation aspect and giving the wrong impression that people don't want to pay anything at all for our water infrastructure. I know some of my non-Irish Facebook friends are asking what the problem is as they've always paid for their water.

We need to emphasise that we already pay. If the amount generated is deemed insufficient then readdress how our existing taxes are being spent.

So far Irish Water has cost an estimation *800 million. It was estimated that it will be *9 years before it starts turning a profit. Imagine if that 800 million had been spent on the water pipes, fixing leaks, upgrading plants etc. I've heard we need to spend billions to upgrade the system. We could start generating money by not paying debts we don't owe.

These figures are in my head from listening to radio interviews so take with a pinch of salt...

 

[magicbastarder]

i don't think the fact that we already pay is pertinent; it's changing how we pay. the claim of 'double taxation' doesn't stack up for me.
for example, i've heard arguments from people who are living in areas with boil notices giving out saying 'why should we pay for this'? the funny thing is, they are the very people who should be campaigning for water metering - as they're currently paying for shitty water in the form of general taxation, but won't have to pay for water if they're on a boil notice, if metering is introduced.

part of the issue as well is that water needed to be centralised; it was (afaik) under the control of the various local authorities for years, resulting in massive ineconomies of scale. the creation of 'irish water' (apart from the metering argument) should have happened years ago.

re the water being a human right argument, it's a trite response, but so is food. but no-one expects their food to be paid for from general taxation, unless they're already in receipt of welfare.

 

[magicbastarder]

i made the point earlier in the thread, but i saw people watering their lawns this summer. which is ludicrous; watering your lawn with drinking water; the basic question in that sense is why shouldn't there be any impetus on people to stop wasting something which costs everyone else to produce?

 

[therealjohnny]

Sure if we need to change how we pay then let's do it. But not to fill the coffers of private enterprise. Everything is pointing to the government laying the grounds for the TTIP and selling off the water supply. This is why the Detroit Water activists have got involved. Families are having water cut off.
The Irish government say that wouldn't happen here. I don't believe them.
If it does get sold as part of The TTIP it won't matter what the government says, whoever owns it can set the rules.

I hope people who can afford it don't just quietly pay up without giving it some thought.

 

[nooleen]

any sensible arguments on the topic of infrastructure or resource management are completely irrelevant given the combination of absolute balls and cynical enterprise they've made of the whole thing.

they've shown no signs of improving the infrastructure and all signs of corralling the water system as a resource to be sold rather than properly conserved.

 

[magicbastarder]

what have they done which shows that they're intent on selling it, which would not have been done had they not been intending on centralising and metering it?
i'm not saying i think they've done a good job of what's happened so far; it's been largely a clusterfuck and a lot of that is to do with the insanely compressed timescales in which they went from 0 to 60 on this plan.

 

[nooleen]

refused to allow for a referendum that would block the selling of it

 

[therealjohnny]

what have they done which shows that they're intent on selling it, .

This has been all over newspapers and social media for months and is discussed every time a minister is interviewed

 

[Scientician 0.8]

re the water being a human right argument, it's a trite response, but so is food. but no-one expects their food to be paid for from general taxation, unless they're already in receipt of welfare.

Our food is partly paid for from general taxation, CAP and all that.

 

[Space]

Former minister who set up Irish Water says ‘forces’ at work to privatise company