Water Charges (1 Viewer)

[magicbastarder]

and the water system wasn't already in the hands of career politicians? if anything, this is lessening the control of career politicians over it.

it'd be one thing if we were handing over a state of the art system to a dodgy third party; but look where the fantastic derogation we got from the EU not to charge for water got us. while the country was charging ahead with motorway building and housing estate building, the water system was let rot. and i strongly suspect there's a link between those two facts.

 

[therealjohnny]

The government and others have repeatedly said they need the money generated by water charges in order to meet targets set by the troika. The troika instructed them to meter the water as a means of raising money to 'meet our obligation' to them. It isn't and never was about conserving water.

 

[nooleen]

and the water system wasn't already in the hands of career politicians? if anything, this is lessening the control of career politicians over it.

i'm talking about the power to sell control of it

 

[magicbastarder]

The government and others have repeatedly said they need the money generated by water charges in order to meet targets set by the troika. The troika instructed them to meter the water as a means of raising money to 'meet our obligation' to them. It isn't and never was about conserving water.

hey, you get your breaks where you can.
people give out shit about the way this country is run, and regularly point to the way other countries are run as an example of how to do things right.
and then give out shit when we move to copy those other countries.

 

[nooleen]

i don't remember anyone ever complaining that we should be copying thatcherite privatisation models

 

[therealjohnny]

hey, you get your breaks where you can.
people give out shit about the way this country is run, and regularly point to the way other countries are run as an example of how to do things right.
and then give out shit when we move to copy those other countries.

Are you taking the piss? I kind of feel like it's Jane v that boris belony guy all over again

 

[Unknown Convict]

yes, because people are conscientious about spending hundreds, possibly thousands, of euro, on money they won't save a penny on.

??
personally speaking, i've always tried to conserve water since...eh... r.e.m. released green in 1988, as part of an overall attempt to minimise my environmental footprint. it might seem trite these days, but i try to abide by the "think global, act local" philosophy.

for the record, i'm 100% pro-water charges (in principle), 100% pro-metering, 100% anti-privatisation of the resource and believe that if water charges are not introduced that the govt. will get the €€ through other means, be they taxation, levies, cuts, whatever. in an ideal world, we'd get an itemised tax bill that shows what % of contributions go towards health, education, social assistance, international aid, roads, govt. salaries... on and on... giving each citizen a sense of ownership, of participation, of pride in our country. i abhor the small-minded, them and us legacy of colonialisation and the expectation of rights without the willingness to accept responsibilities.

there. i said it. it's been brewing for weeks. i don't feel any better nor more optimistic, but that's where i stand. do your worst.

none of that has anything to do with handing over the rights to the water system to corrupt career politicians

who had these "rights" before?

 

[magicbastarder]

i don't remember anyone ever complaining that we should be copying thatcherite privatisation models

there's no rule that metered water systems must be privatised. i'm not arguing for privatised water, i'm arguing for metered water.

 

[nooleen]

there's no rule that metered water systems must be privatised. i'm not arguing for privatised water, i'm arguing for metered water.

yes but we already covered why that is irrelevant this morning

 

[therealjohnny]

There are good points being made here but Irish Water is most certainly not the answer

 

[magicbastarder]

??
personally speaking, i've always tried to conserve water

unfortunately, you are not in the majority. i would place myself in a similar box to you.

re the who owned the water system before; the local authorities did, and there were over 30 of them in a small country; so significantly reduced benefits of strategic planning or economies of scale.

 

[nooleen]

who had these "rights" before?

no-one, because the system wasn't metered. i'm talking about the power to charge for water, not some hippy human right thing.

 

[magicbastarder]

yes but we already covered why that is irrelevant this morning

thankfully the government stepped back from privatising coillte; somewhat different issues at stake, but they realised it would be a politically toxic move. so there's precedent here.

my argument is that the necessary steps to make the water system more efficient are being taken by others as the necessary steps to sell it off. if you avoid taking the steps to sell it off, you're also avoiding the steps to modernise it.

 

[nooleen]

thankfully the government stepped back from privatising coillte; somewhat different issues at stake, but they realised it would be a politically toxic move. so there's precedent here.

my argument is that the necessary steps to make the water system more efficient are being taken by others as the necessary steps to sell it off. if you avoid taking the steps to sell it off, you're also avoiding the steps to modernise it.

refusing to allow for a referendum on any future sale of irish water is not a necessary step to making the system more efficient.
it's an incredibly simple step to take and they refuse to do it. why is that?

 

[magicbastarder]

i'm talking about the power to charge for water

you were/are charged for water. you are charged through general taxation. the same people still currently own the system.

 

[Unknown Convict]

no-one, because the system wasn't metered.

false dichotomy, and the previous lack of an overarching strategy has us in the shit we're in now.

 

[nooleen]

you were/are charged for water. you are charged through general taxation. the same people still currently own the system.

yes, and that's fine. the problem is that power handed over to a private company.

 

[nooleen]

false dichotomy

what do you mean?

 

[magicbastarder]

yes, and that's fine. the problem is that power handed over to a private company.

no, the contract to install the meters was handed to a private company.

 

[nooleen]

in case it's not clear from the fact that my last 15 posts or so have been all about privatisation, when i talk about 'rights' and 'power' i'm referring specifically to the transfer of ownership of the resource to private interests