this auld wan that's up the duff (1 Viewer)

[snakybus]

BUT WHICH ONE?

PS: Also, I have to get Anne OMalley's signed consent first.

proper order

 

[egg_]

You didn't want my own words, so I gave you statistics that suggest that there is still a belief that women have a tendency to lie about rape. Now you want my own words. Which is it?

Ah dammit I'm still getting your back up. I don't think I actually asked for statistics, as I can't see them giving a complete picture without being able to quantify some things that probably can't be quantified. For example,
percentages of people who think accustions of rape is often false is pretty weak supporting evidence for your "whores and liars" thesis. What percentage of people think that some murder victims are not completely innocent? What percentage of people think that accusations of assault are often false? What percentage of accusations of assault/rape are actually false? What counts as an accusation?
That's why I asked for your own words.

I am not trying to accuse ANYONE of this

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you're presenting your arguments in a way that alienates a lot of people

I think the main reason for the really scary feminist and anti-lefty backlash in society is that people, yes, are afraid to see reality.

I think the main reason for the backlash is we (lefties, rather than feminists) tend to alienate people on account of the way we put our arguments across. That, in turn, is one of the the main reasons I'm haranguing you

 

[jane]

proper order

Yeah, and he's away this week, which means you're stuck with me until he gets back.

Sorry, them's the rules, like.

 

[dudley]

pete says he might abort this thread.
i won't let him though

 

[ICUH8N]

this thread is now veering 'twixt the hilarious and the terrifying

 

[La La]

pete says he might abort this thread.
i won't let him though

hey pete, how many thread pages is considered full term?

 

[pete]

pete says he might abort this thread.
i won't let him though

MODERATOR

 

[Buzzo]

This is the biggest ever thread in the lifestyle forum.

I think it's very interesting.


At this point, I know that people advocate the rights of men, so I still want to know how the rights of men will be implemented into practical law. I want to know how the tragedy of the sexes (we have a womb and carry babies), or problems in a relationship can be resolved by law. Genuinely.

 

[mazzyianne]

Ro, it's really frustrating that you dont see what a huge deal it is, being a woman,to imagine someone, anyone having a say that can overrule yours on whether or not you have to have a baby. I mean we have to carry it and give birth to it.
I refer you back to wilberts conclusion a few pages ago. someone has to have the final say, you think it should be the man.

I would prefer to live in ireland with the right to travel than live under your system where some dude I sleep with has the right to force me BY LAW to carry a baby I dont want.
In a relationship it is completely different obviously, but the fact the law is there would freak the fuck out of me.
It's not a pro-choice position either as far as I am concrened.

 

[dudley]

hey pete, how many thread pages is considered full term?

bah, not allowed to rep you. but that made me spit tea with glee

 

[Buzzo]

hey pete, how many thread pages is considered full term?

This thread is like a pregnant elephant.

 

[La La]

This thread is like a pregnant elephant.

aye, they're up the duff for like a hundred years* or summat.

*excuse the gross exaggeration

 

[jane]

Ah dammit I'm still getting your back up. I don't think I actually asked for statistics, as I can't see them giving a complete picture without being able to quantify some things that probably can't be quantified. For example,
percentages of people who think accustions of rape is often false is pretty weak supporting evidence for your "whores and liars" thesis. What percentage of people think that some murder victims are not completely innocent? What percentage of people think that accusations of assault are often false? What percentage of accusations of assault/rape are actually false? What counts as an accusation?
That's why I asked for your own words.

But often, these things are very subtle, and really, all you have to do is look at the media and look at how gender and perceived credibility are often linked.

It's not something that's necessarily drawn straight down gender lines, but it is very much a problem when it comes to a woman's word against a man's.

Also, rape and murder are not the same crime. People can have a similar reaction to two different things but these things could be underlined by different perceptions. When it comes to rape, these things are very much gendered.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you're presenting your arguments in a way that alienates a lot of people

Well, to be honest, I think being asked to prove that sexism in society is still rampant and present in all sorts of unexpected places is a bit of a pain. I'm really tired of having to do that. If you agree that it's present, then what you're asking me to do is a bit patronising.

I mean, if you agree that the problem is everyone's problem, then why blame me for it? Just because I get impassioned on an internet message board? Seriously. And rather than sit there and try to poke holes in everything I say, why not make your own contribution?

 

[MDR]

Ro, it's really frustrating that you dont see what a huge deal it is, being a woman,to imagine someone, anyone having a say that can overrule yours on whether or not you have to have a baby. I mean we have to carry it and give birth to it.
I refer you back to wilberts conclusion a few pages ago. someone has to have the final say, you think it should be the man.

The woman did not grow the 'organism' in her womb herself - it was done through a consensual act by two people. To undo that act you should need the consent of both people. That's my view. It's not a question of control. If the woman had created the foetus herself it would be none of the man's business.

On the legal question, if a woman, who had become pregnant through consensual act, had an abortion without the father's consent, the father would have a right to legal recourse in terms of damages. Jane you keep asking for my view on this even though you know it won't change your mind one bit.

 

[La La]

poke holes in everything

you didnt just say that on this thread!

teasin'

 

[desertedvillage]

'Ro's' scenario = woman becomes pregnant after consensual sex and has to carry baby after which the father takes care of it. Is that really more damaging?

You have such a black and white way of looking at this, you come across as naive[FONT=&quot][/FONT].
kirstie & Jane already pointed out how stressful pregnancy is. Women have hearts and brains as well as wombs. Have you thought for a moment what happens when the baby is born? Ever listen to a mother talking about it? You've heard parents (both sexes) say how they changed forever the moment they saw their child right?
A cocktail of hormones no man can understand comes on stream the moment a woman holds her child.
Women are biologically designed to fall in love with, kill and die for their newborn babies. It's not just a matter of taking 4 weeks off work, dumping the sprog and getting on with life.

You're asking a women to go through the stress of 9 months of an unwanted pregnancy, the agony of giving birth when she didn't feel ready and then to reconcile the rational part of her brain that doesn't want a kid with the perspective-changing experience of childbirth. Do you actually think any woman would just go "I have no feelings for my newly-born kid, just courier it to the fathers house. Tell him/her not to try to look me up when they turn 18." Can you imagine the guilt?, The mixed emotions.

You haven't thought this through at all.

 

[jane]

On the legal question, if a woman, who had become pregnant through consensual act, had an abortion without the father's consent, the father would have a right to legal recourse in terms of damages. Jane you keep asking for my view on this even though you know it won't change your mind one bit.

No, it's not going to change my mind, but I do think you should explain yourself.

So men would be able to make money out of this? And the woman would pay for the abortion twice?

 

[Juno]

On the legal question, if a woman, who had become pregnant through consensual act, had an abortion without the father's consent, the father would have a right to legal recourse in terms of damages. Jane you keep asking for my view on this even though you know it won't change your mind one bit.

Damages? Would it come down to fining the errant mother?

 

[spiritualtramp]

On the legal question, if a woman, who had become pregnant through consensual act, had an abortion without the father's consent, the father would have a right to legal recourse in terms of damages.

This wouldn't work because then loads of women would "accidentally" fall down the stairs or fall onto a knitting needle.
I do agree with where you are coming from but it isn't actually workable.

 

[ICUH8N]

So men would be able to make money out of this?

it's either tort, or criminal proceedings followed by a penal sentence, perhaps in the birthing-prison.