The Russian invasion of Ukraine (9 Viewers)

[Deadmanposting]

the russian devastation left behind in bucha and outside kiev is probably just the beginning. I dread to think what they’re doing in mariupol. and this stuff (from some twitter dude, caveat emptor) about fresh graves in kherson just sounds incredibly grim.

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It'd wither your heart

Godawful

 

[Deadmanposting]

I think a big part of it though is that the the Ukrainians were preparing for the Russians to roll in the tanks for the last 8 years. They knew how the Russians we likely to act, and developed a plan to counter that as effectively as they could with the resources they had. The Russians thought they would roll over.

Its not just an equipment thing - the Russians have a massive, modern army and airforce. The US would have bombed the shit out of Ukraine for a month before any boots hit the ground. Putin clearly thought it would be over within a few weeks at most.

Thats an intelligence and strategic failure on behalf of the russians.

but the 'plucky Ukrainians' trope is silly I'll agree. There's more to it than that

Yeah
Seems like the Russian army only knows how to do one thing - bomb the fuck out of cities - and it's doing it.

The Ukrainians got embarrassed in Donbass and have been waiting and planning (like you said) for this since.

I have zero evidence for this, but I'd guess there is a serious intelligence leak somewhere near the mad king. The Americans have been saying he'd invade for months now, when the Europeans didn't think it was possible. They have some manner of insider track and they aren't just handing Javelins to the UKR army and saying good luck. Some fair degree of intelligence sharing going on too. The RUssian air force might be wary.

As modern as the RUssian army is, it has the weakness that lies at the heart of the Russian state. It is built on lies and theft. These young Russian lads are being sent in based on a bunch of convenient lies that have been turned into dogma. They are coming face to face with the lies they've been told and they are folding.
AND there's corruption everywhere in that country. For all the money spent modernising the army, a lot of it has been pilfered. Lots of independent report about cheap Chinese knockoffs of everything from tyres to armour to you-name-it, where there should be Russian gear.




Lads, sorry to come in here with a cluster bomb of takes. Just had a forced absence there. And this war has been on my mind a lot.

 

[nuke terrorist]

This is the point though - pretty much everyone I know rails against the fucking unholy destruction of Iraq. Mention it and most Irish people I know get visibly angry.

But there's this core of lads that will prevaricate about Russia, and give you a bunch of geopolitical horseshit straight from RT any time the Russian army is killing civilians.

They equate Putin with Russia, he's not
And this idea that Russia still being a 'great power' or whatever is an excuse for all this slaughter from Chechnya to Georgia to Syria. Just pure slaughter. This isn't even the first time he's invaded Ukraine.

All I see from these lads is utter guff about how Zelensky is in bed with MI6 and so on. And all this denazification hooey.
And these are decent lads. Good family men, that live with love in their lives.

It just boggles my goddamn mind that they have been so taken in by a murderous thug that runs a country, that they will fight his corner and believe his lies, and just "Yeah, but America" at anyone that questions it.

If anyone said "But Russia cluster bombed Syria" when you brought up the US wholesale wrecking of Iraq, you'd tell them to have a talk with themselves.
These lads though. Same shit, different team.

Anyway. I won't figure it out.

It is just a major head scratcher for me.

who is saying this?
everyone I know detests Putin and his propaganda.
the crimes his army are committing in Ukraine obviously doesn't give NATO a free pass on their own war crimes.

 

[Cormcolash]

One of the things about politicians is that none of the cunts in charge ever say anything remotely like "Close down the arms manufacturers altogether".

 

[Deadmanposting]

who is saying this?
everyone I know detests Putin and his propaganda.
the crimes his army are committing in Ukraine obviously doesn't give NATO a free pass on their own war crimes.

There's a hardcore of lads I know on Twitter pushing back on every bit of news from UKR
Some of them I originally knew from here - but that is going years back now

So I am coming on here to vent in secret, which is really awful dysfunctional behaviour altogether.

This has nothing to do with NATO, or iraq, or Afghanistan, or the Falklands, or anywhere else
it's a paranoid madman running a country and destroying those countries around him.

 

[Lili Marlene]

From my point of view this is just war.

Every time there's a war there's war crimes, there's no wars without warcrimes. The stuff that's coming out is so horrendous, I doubt there's orders from the top to massacre civilians but once there's an order from the top to go to war there may as well be.

Have we turned off the Russian fossil fuels yet? I think I read we stopped buying coal? Are we going to make a stand against this or what?

 

[Deadmanposting]

I doubt there's orders from the top to massacre civilians

Of course there is. This is the whole point.

They are bombing the absolute fuck out of civilian neighbourhoods and apartment buildings as their strategy,

Where is the doubt coming from? That Putin is too nice to do this?
He did it in Syria and Chechnya.
This is exactly what he does.
These horrors aren't unintended consequences.
It's not a few rogues going off script. This is the exact script.
The Falklands was just a war.
This is an unprovoked attack on a peaceful country and its subsequent destruction by the targeting of its civilian population.

This is all intended. They have form on this exact thing.

 

[Cormcolash]

on Twitter

I may have discovered your main problem here

 

[dudley]

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[Lili Marlene]

Of course there is. This is the whole point.

They are bombing the absolute fuck out of civilian neighbourhoods and apartment buildings as their strategy,

Where is the doubt coming from? That Putin is too nice to do this?
He did it in Syria and Chechnya.
This is exactly what he does.
These horrors aren't unintended consequences.
It's not a few rogues going off script. This is the exact script.
The Falklands was just a war.
This is an unprovoked attack on a peaceful country and its subsequent destruction by the targeting of its civilian population.

This is all intended. They have form on this exact thing.

Mate, you need to stop agreeing with me so hard.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Mate, you need to stop agreeing with me so hard.

Nice edit

 

[Deadmanposting]

I may have discovered your main problem here

Brother, you are not wrong

 

[GO]

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[egg_]

Ignoramuses gonna ignoraim

 

[Lili Marlene]

Nice edit

???

Come on man what's your big plan so?

 

[taubstumm]

Of course there is. This is the whole point.

They are bombing the absolute fuck out of civilian neighbourhoods and apartment buildings as their strategy,

Where is the doubt coming from? That Putin is too nice to do this?
He did it in Syria and Chechnya.
This is exactly what he does.
These horrors aren't unintended consequences.
It's not a few rogues going off script. This is the exact script.
The Falklands was just a war.
This is an unprovoked attack on a peaceful country and its subsequent destruction by the targeting of its civilian population.

This is all intended. They have form on this exact thing.

the US (plus UK and France) drove the entire city of Raqqa back to the stone age not even five years ago, we don’t even know how many people died but it was most likely in the thousands, possibly much more — and that was all just a sideshow from the other wars and proxy wars in afghanistan, libya, yemen, iraq, and elsewhere.

it’s not knee-jerk whataboutism to mention these things. (I just posted about the bucha insanity, I’m not ignoring what Putin is doing.) but it can be easy to forget that liberal democracies have been some of the most bloodthirsty institutions in human history. they are also some of the most successful at deflecting attention from their crimes.

until you understand this, the world is like a fairytale, impossible to make sense of. but if you are trying to do the hard work of making sense of the world, you need to understand this.

 

[Deadmanposting]

but it can be easy to forget that liberal democracies have been some of the most bloodthirsty institutions in human history.

Where is the sense that anyone is forgetting this?
Everyone knows what America has done. What the English/Brits have done. What Belgium, may God forgive them, has done. The horrors committed in Africa and Asia by Europeans. And all the rest.

What I don't understand is the need to compare at all when there's people being bombed. It comes across to me as absolute whataboutism.
Like historical context can somehow diminish the scale of what this butcher is doing.

When Fred West killed a bunch of people, no one went "Well Peter Sutcliffe did also kill women, so let's not forget that."
We call out evil when we see it. This guy is a dead-eyed psycho.


I understand the world just fine. Not perfectly, but as well as any adult that gives their time to current affairs.
Granted, I've got a particular thing with Putin, whose been a butcher since at least Chechnya. And it wrecks my head when people see him as some noble but imperfect counterweight to the West. He's not. He's a bloodthirsty thug.
And saying "But America..." every time he does something fucked up - which is often - is another way of devaluing what he's done.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Anyway, I only came on here to put this up

PPP's Murphy, who I generally like and agree with. Totally in line with Putin, just a cursory condemnation - and then stands in line with everything Putin wants, just gives different reasons.
Because for him, the real enemy is the West - and apparently the fucking EU. God help us.
Have a talk with yourself, Paul. Cos this is utter crap.

And Brid Smyth too. You'd think she'd have some sense.
But even she wants to nitpick the policies of a guy whose country is getting wiped away.

Fucking loo-lahs.

However, he explained: “We can’t applaud calls for more sanctions which are hurting ordinary Russians and only bolstering the Putin regime at home.” Mr Murphy also criticised steps taken by Mr Zelenskiy’s government in domestic politics.

“It’s worrying that the Zelenskiy government has banned opposition parties with almost 20 per cent of the vote in Ukraine. That’s not because we support those parties but because it’s a worrying attack on democratic rights which undermines the struggle against the invasion.”

Mr Murphy said that he and Mr Boyd Barrett had also not applauded Taoiseach Micheál Martin’s declaration of support for Ukrainian membership of the EU.

He said EU membership was a matter for the Ukrainian people and if they wanted to join, his party would not be in favour of blocking them.

“But it’s no secret that we aren’t fans of the undemocratic nature of the EU, its neo-liberal policies and the current drive to militarisation”.

Edit - I gotta calm down

Anger is the biggest opponent most any of us face

Sorry, you guys

 

[Deadmanposting]

Me rn

 

[ann post]

One of the things about politicians is that none of the cunts in charge ever say anything remotely like "Close down the arms manufacturers altogether".

That's kinda what Clare Daly said today.