The Russian invasion of Ukraine (5 Viewers)

[JohnnyRaz]

Contradicts whatever I read

What's the reason they can't dominate the sky over the Ukraine then? Maybe not enough decent pilots?

I think they simply didn't deploy them.. I've read pilot training/flying hours and munitions may be an issue.

could be they thought it would be a walkover and didn't want to risk their shiny toys,

 

[pete]

that’s one of the central mysteries of this war (along with the question of why the hell the russians had their giant traffic jam outside kiev)

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[flashback]

that’s one of the central mysteries of this war (along with the question of why the hell the russians had their giant traffic jam outside kiev)

What about the Forbes analysis is just incorrect? People have been lying, and he's been reading the same press releases that have been fed back to Putin and company? The money that was being allegedly spent on buying and maintaining all this military stuff, wasn't.

If they had the option to keep rolling those tanks, they would have. If they had the option to send up this tight new air force, they would have. There's no shortage of people in Russia, or fuel to run things, or engineers and shops to fabricate all this stuff. But the lads who got paid to run all this decided they preferred the option of telling people they'd completed their tasks, and using the money to do up their new place on the Black Sea.

 

[Cormcolash]

I think they simply didn't deploy them.. I've read pilot training/flying hours and munitions may be an issue.

could be they thought it would be a walkover and didn't want to risk their shiny toys,

Pretty sure that's mostly it alright.
You have to understand as well that modern air-to-air combat isn't at all like Top Gun or any of that shit. Fighter pilots won't see each other because they'll be kilometres away launching missiles instead. On the other hand, aircraft making ground strikes have to get a lot closer to their targets.
So probably what is happening in Ukraine is that Russia has only been using strike aircraft, which are generally older Migs and Sus that need to get closer for strikes and therefore have more risk of being shot down by ground-launched AAMs, and haven't bothered sending their newer anti-fighter planes into the sky because there's mostly fuck all up there for them to shoot at.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

What about the Forbes analysis is just incorrect? People have been lying, and he's been reading the same press releases that have been fed back to Putin and company? The money that was being allegedly spent on buying and maintaining all this military stuff, wasn't.

If they had the option to keep rolling those tanks, they would have. If they had the option to send up this tight new air force, they would have. There's no shortage of people in Russia, or fuel to run things, or engineers and shops to fabricate all this stuff. But the lads who got paid to run all this decided they preferred the option of telling people they'd completed their tasks, and using the money to do up their new place on the Black Sea.

its possible - and I've seen a few articles which question how operable and effective these new planes/pilots are.

but at the end of the day the ukranians had like 41 fighters at the start, the russians haven't even been able to defend their own ground troops from drones etc in places.

even if half of the 'shiny jets and bombs' budget went on hookers and big houses, ye'd think they'd be able to have done something.

This whole thing has probably made the rest of the world (I'm looking at you china) a little less cautious of the russian army.

 

[Cormcolash]

As far as the army goes, I would think there's probably quite a significant proportion of troops on the ground for Russia that just don't want to be there and 'didn't sign up for this' (literally, cause they're conscripted 19 year olds). That's not what you want to be effective. It's like you've got your football team with 11 players, but 3 of the players just don't give a fuck and stroll about the pitch – you'll lose any match you play against another team with 11 players that are actually working properly together, even if they're a 'technically inferior' team.
See Man Utd for further reading.

 

[Cormcolash]

It's true that if it was the US, they would have been raining bombs and missiles down on Ukraine for the last month already, and not really given any fucks about what they actually hit. But Ukraine has a much more significantly advanced anti-aircraft/missile defence than any country the US has gone for in the last few decades, due to the fact that they've been given a lot of anti-aircraft shit by the US.
So it probably wasn't feasible to approach Ukraine in the US 'shock and awe' style, but also if Putin wants to keep selling the lie of 'denazification' etc. then they couldn't be seen to just be bombing the entire place – and actually most of their targets and strikes in Ukraine have been military, until they arrived at cities etc. that Ukraine have basically militarised to fight them (this in no way excuses the civilian casualties caused by Putin's horrible shit).
Basically, this is a different kind of war to any seen before, the closest similarity would be the American invasion of Iraq but Iraq wasn't even close to as prepared for a fight as Ukraine, Saddam was all bluster and bullshit when it came to his actual capabilities (just like the intelligence info used to justify the whole shit). Like, Israel could have taken out Iraq themselves without any real problems.

 

[magicbastarder]

basically, it's easier for putin to risk the undertrained 19 year olds, of which he has loads, than risk his more advanced air force, which he can't afford to lose much of?

 

[JohnnyRaz]

basically, it's easier for putin to risk the undertrained 19 year olds, of which he has loads, than risk his more advanced air force, which he can't afford to lose much of?

sounds plausible.

 

[ernesto]

Invisible fancy planes

 

[Cormcolash]

Invisible fancy planes

That would be the entire point of fancy planes these days, yes

 

[ernesto]

That would be the entire point of fancy planes these days, yes

Must be invisible bombs too

 

[Cormcolash]

Seems like a lot of the Russian bombs and shit have been perfectly visible.

 

[ernesto]

Seems like a lot of the Russian bombs and shit have been perfectly visible.

No shit.
My point still is that they haven't used their fancy planes. Because they don't have any

 

[pete]

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[Lili Marlene]

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I was reading something the other day saying the exact opposite of this, that oligarchs that are close to Putin stay in Russia and own all the buildings in Moscow and those who are not (e.g. Abramovich) move to places like London, buy football teams and haven't been in Russia in years. I've lost the link now unfortunately. Doesn't mean he isn't a massive piece of shit of course but we didn't care about that until one month ago.

 

[Unicron]

I was reading something the other day saying the exact opposite of this, that oligarchs that are close to Putin stay in Russia and own all the buildings in Moscow and those who are not (e.g. Abramovich) move to places like London, buy football teams and haven't been in Russia in years. I've lost the link now unfortunately. Doesn't mean he isn't a massive piece of shit of course but we didn't care about that until one month ago.

Football fans who don't support Chelsea have been massively down on the guy since 2003.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Football fans who don't support Chelsea have been massively down on the guy since 2003.

Ah yeah, I remember being a bit disappointed when Prince played his new years party one year, a big payday i'm sure but come on man, these people are not good!

I'm more getting at the fact that the idea that he is super close to Putin (presented on that thread above) was in dispute, but I certainly don't know which story is true.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Must be invisible bombs too

More Fur coat and no knickers if this chat is to believed

Where is the Russian Air Force? (Opinion) | Shephard

Despite its reputation, the Russian Air Force has failed to make significant advances in Ukraine — but the lessons that will be likely to emerge will be applicable to all.

www.shephardmedia.com

 

[Unicron]

Ah yeah, I remember being a bit disappointed when Prince played his new years party one year, a big payday i'm sure but come on man, these people are not good!

I'm more getting at the fact that the idea that he is super close to Putin (presented on that thread above) was in dispute, but I certainly don't know which story is true.

There was a bbc spotlight thing that went out the week after he was sanctioned that went into a lot of detail about how they claim he got the money. A lot of it was pre-Putin but he seemed very close to powerful people in the Yelstin era. The russian government basically loaned him the money to buy the oil company off them.

Only became ultra rich when he sold it back to the state after Putin came in.