The Russian invasion of Ukraine (1 Viewer)

[Deadmanposting]

It's barely on the news over there anymore. The american public has forgotten about it

Bunch of dopes with zero attention span beyond their navels

 

[Deadmanposting]

What's more complicated/troublesome: Americans making Himars or Russians building tanks?

There's also the British NLAWS, which are apparently quite effective.


The Russians have MOAR of everything for now, but they're shit. I'd imagine the yanks and brits are a bit more technically and logistically savvy than the Russians. And that's, well, it's not all that matters, but it matters a lot.

If the rest of Europe provides bandages and tyres and I dunno, and all the other things, then Putin might have a think about where he's at.

I wouldn't like or expect Ukraine to go into Russian territory, or for NATO to get directly involved.

Russian tanks are easy to make, comparatively
And they have been doing it for forever.

Americans have dropped back in funding battlefield armaments like HIMARS because they've been over in their idiotic forever wars in Iraq and Afghanistan doing street fighting and counter insurgency.
That's where their funding and investment has been going.

And it’s not as easy as flicking a switch. Assembly lines and factories have closed. There’s a massive problem in the US in finding skilled workers. Add to that all the supply chain issues and microchip shortages that the rest of the world are facing, and they basically have what they have now, and there aren’t a lot more coming any time soon.

Plus they have to keep some for themselves. Can't give 'em all away.


The Russian army is a joke. But there is a lot of them. And they will keep bombing and blasting their inventories at whatever and whoever. It's not their country, why should they care how much they destroy it?
Plus they're all nazis in Ukraine anyway.


No one's going into Russian territory. All Ukraine wants is its country back.
Hardly an unreasonable request.

 

[egg_]

Russia said "fuck negotiations, we choose slaughter"

Now all these lads on here are saying "Why don't the Ukrainians just negotiate?"
They already fecking tried that!
Everyone tried to talk Putin out of this.

Putin is going to have to be talked out of it at some stage anyway. I can't see how the Ukrainian position is going to get any stronger over time

 

[Space]

Plus they have to keep some for themselves. Can't give 'em all away.

No one is giving anything away.

 

[Deadmanposting]

It is truly wild to me that Putin bombs city after city, in country after country, going on decades now.
Deliberately and strategically murdering couples in their beds, killing kids at school, and mothers out shopping.
His soldiers shooting people for fun and raping women with impunity.

He shows us who he is, time after time, war after war.
A maniac. A murderer or people and destroyer of societies. This is who he is.

And so many of you think that the actual real problem in Europe is the West and Nato.

So you can't get angry at this thug. There's basically a refusal to see him for who he is.
Because the glory of Russia and the USSR must be restored or some other horseshit.
Or whatever line of codswallop RT or Sputnik feeds you.

This guy would kill your family for looking at him crooked.
He's no saviour. He's a gang boss.
He's Christy Kinahan with a country.

Have a word with yourselves.

 

[ann post]

I'm not pro putin or whatever.

The reason i pick the bones is by continual escalation we slowly become putin to fight putin, at which point the societal wormhole is survival only for the most brutal version of society.

That said i think essentially in the west we are wee bit soft and that is what is costing Ukraine at this time.

And we are all minining through a thick fog of information and counterinformation. And it is fair and right to feel passionately about it, but I am not here giving my 2c about how i suspect we'll get fucked this winter as a mark of support for putin, its more people want him to be stupid, a brute, an ogre lashing out when the wise thing to do is suspect he (his military intel and admin) are well within thier plans.

 

[Deadmanposting]

I'm not pro putin or whatever.

The reason i pick the bones is by continual escalation we slowly become putin to fight putin, at which point the societal wormhole is survival only for the most brutal version of society.

That said i think essentially in the west we are wee bit soft and that is what is costing Ukraine at this time.

And we are all minining through a thick fog of information and counterinformation. And it is fair and right to feel passionately about it, but I am not here giving my 2c about how i suspect we'll get fucked this winter as a mark of support for putin, its more people want him to be stupid, a brute, an ogre lashing out when the wise thing to do is suspect he (his military intel and admin) are well within thier plans.

We gotta fight these guys or we live with their violence forever.

I get you on the information overload, but at a certain point you have to reduce it to natural justice and what you feel for your common man.
There's one side getting murdered and raped.
And another calling them nazis and yelling about purification.
It's possible to overthink it.

I don't think Putin is stupid. He's cruel and brutal, but he understands power better than most in the West.
Or certainly how to exercise it. He's capable of anything.

 

[ann post]

Do you know just how many russian familes don't have rattan garden furniture though?

 

[egg_]

many of you think that the actual real problem in Europe is the West and Nato

I don't think you're right about that. Just because people are criticising NATO doesn't mean they're pro-Putin, or even making excuses for him. People are just trying to understand how we got here, I think

As for this

We gotta fight these guys or we live with their violence forever.

... well we're gonna live with their violence forever anyway unless we destroy them utterly. Or befriend them I guess

 

[magicbastarder]

maybe all putin needs is a hug.

 

[Deadmanposting]

... well we're gonna live with their violence forever anyway unless we destroy them utterly. Or befriend them I guess

Just make Russia pay a cost for what its done to its neighbours so that gang boss will think twice about doing it to Finland or Poland or whoever next.

That hasn't happened anywhere yet and he's been doing this for decades


This guy doesn't want friends. He wants an empire.
He's not interested in peace or anything like it.
He wants the USSR back. He thinks Ukraine is his and has no reason to exist as an independent country.
There's no being friends with a gangster. It's not a frame of reference they understand.

 

[egg_]

Just make Russia pay a cost for what its done to its neighbours so that gang boss will think twice about doing it to Finland or Poland or whoever next.

That hasn't happened anywhere yet and he's been doing this for decades

Didn't the Chechens make them pay a cost?

If I understand it right you're saying that everyone would be better off if the Ukrainians drove Russia back as far as the border, and that Putin would think twice about attacking anyone again if they did. I'm not sure that's actually possible without getting NATO directly involved, and I'm not sure it'd make things any better for Russia's neighbours one way or the other. If you're being bullied in school and you deck the guy he might stop bullying you, but he doesn't stop being a bully

 

[Deadmanposting]

Didn't the Chechens make them pay a cost?

If I understand it right you're saying that everyone would be better off if the Ukrainians drove Russia back as far as the border, and that Putin would think twice about attacking anyone again if they did. I'm not sure that's actually possible without getting NATO directly involved, and I'm not sure it'd make things any better for Russia's neighbours one way or the other. If you're being bullied in school and you deck the guy he might stop bullying you, but he doesn't stop being a bully

What I’m saying is that his behaviour has been consistent no matter what anyone else does.

He’s bombed cities wherever he’s felt like it.
Syria had nothing to do with Nato, Putin was just flexing his muscles. Showing the world he’s still a superpower. Absolute horrific stuff there. Way worse than Ukraine.
He didn’t like the government in Georgia, so he invents a genocide story and bombs the absolute fuck out of Tblisi.
Didn’t like what was happening in Chechnya. No Nato there. Goes in and bombs the fuck out of Grozny, like killing hundreds of women and children at a market – just a day at the office for Vlad.

And this isn’t even the first time he’s invaded Ukraine. A bunch of lies and bullshit pretexts and always killings after killings of innocents. An airliner blown out of the sky? Fuck off, wasn’t us.

What did big bad scary implacable Nato do about any of this? Fucking half nothing. Showered him with money for oil and gas.

Point is. Nato. No Nato. Whatever. He’s the same.
Friendly – Germany deluding itself with Ostpolitik. Not friendly. He’s the same.

Negotiate? Fuck off, the tanks are going in. None of it matters. He’s the same.
He’ll just keep killing civilians cos he knows it hurts and the other side are unlikely to respond in kind. That’s his strength.
He understands power and that he will absolutely do what the other side won’t.


I have no idea what works against this guy, but the Ukrainians are angry enough to keep punching him in the fucking face.
And I’m absolutely okay with them trying that for as long as they want to.

The Russian army has been shown for what it is. Inept tactically, and just thieves and rapists on the ground.
Sheer volume of numbers gives them an advantage. But everyone has seen they are less than what they were sold as in a real fight.
That's gotta be some small cold comfort for Poland and FInland et al. But not much.


Sincere apologies for the long post.
Just be thankful you don't live in my brain.

 

[nuke terrorist]

We gotta fight these guys or we live with their violence forever.

I get you on the information overload, but at a certain point you have to reduce it to natural justice and what you feel for your common man.
There's one side getting murdered and raped.
And another calling them nazis and yelling about purification.
It's possible to overthink it.

I don't think Putin is stupid. He's cruel and brutal, but he understands power better than most in the West.
Or certainly how to exercise it. He's capable of anything.

but how do you stop someone who is 'capable of anything' though?
Putin has 500 odd nuclear warheads. imagine trying to stop Hitler if he'd had nukes.

if Ukraine attacked military targets in Russia, it would qualify morally as self defence. but what kind of reponse would Putin's regime take? surely it would be escalating the war with far more brutality.

the NATO comparision is valid as it shows very powerful people have a history of getting away with mass murder.
the commanding officer on Bloody Sunday eventually ended up as head of the British army and got a knighthood. sickeningly nearly 50 years of campaigning didn't bring individuals to justice.
only people from tin pot regimes end up in The Hague.
many an overthrown dictator saw out their days abroad in luxury.

Did you read the Volodymyr Ishchenko (Ukrainian activist and academic) interview earlier in this thread?
have you been in Ukraine often or have specialist knowledge of the country?
have you got military training?
did you hack into psychiatric analysis of Putin?

Putin is the most vile living person I can think of. he has lost his mind and has weapons at this disposal that could kill billions.

egg has said a lot of sensible things on this page.
Deadmanposting - I get your sense of injustice and outrage - this is an extremely one sided conflict.
all we are disgreeing on here how to achieve the best outcome for long term peace in Ukraine.

 

[Deadmanposting]

how to achieve the best outcome for long term peace in Ukraine.

That's a generation away at best
I think the best chance the Ukrainians have for a liveable future is to hurt the Russian army as hard as they can and kill as many Russian soldiers as possible
They seem to think so too

But Ukraine as we know it is probably lost
The Russians said yesterday they want Kherson
So a lot more people there are going to die soon enough

have you been in Ukraine often or have specialist knowledge of the country?
have you got military training?
did you hack into psychiatric analysis of Putin?

Gimme a break, man
We are all the same here on that score

 

[nuke terrorist]

That's a generation away at best
I think the best chance the Ukrainians have for a liveable future is to hurt the Russian army as hard as they can and kill as many Russian soldiers as possible
They seem to think so too

But Ukraine as we know it is probably lost
The Russians said yesterday they want Kherson
So a lot more people there are going to die soon enough



Gimme a break, man
We are all the same here on that score

please remember I think you are dead sound Deadman.

I have posted many times on the institutional lack accountability of adults during my childhood (and beyond). I had a happy adult life but can't get my mind around how people thought it was/is normal for children to have far less rights than adults. I just cannot come to terms with it and my anger about mundane mistreatment can come out irrationally sometimes.
really I should not forget this but definitely leave it in the past.

some of the stuff in the last few pages (inc very much me) has been us debating relatively minor differences of opinion. but that's what thumped is about for me - we're all still getting along.

 

[Deadmanposting]

some of the stuff in the last few pages (inc very much me) has been us debating relatively minor differences of opinion. but that's what thumped is about for me - we're all still getting along.

of course we are
You have a very good and welcome presence here with meaningful contributions
More than me, I'm sure


I'm not that sound, in fairness

 

[JohnnyRaz]

the Ukrainian's have liberated a cat on snake Island.

Ukrainian troops save a CAT left behind by Russians on Snake Island

Troops from Ukraine's military intelligence branch rescued a small black cat they found abandoned on Snake Island after Putin's men retreated from the strategic outpost last month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'''A Ukrainian cat, which had lived for several months under occupation, was found and evacuated to allied territory,'' - I'd be worried the cat could be a mole?

 

[Space]

It is truly wild to me that Putin bombs city after city, in country after country, going on decades now.
Deliberately and strategically murdering couples in their beds, killing kids at school, and mothers out shopping.
His soldiers shooting people for fun and raping women with impunity.

He shows us who he is, time after time, war after war.
A maniac. A murderer or people and destroyer of societies. This is who he is.

And so many of you think that the actual real problem in Europe is the West and Nato.

So you can't get angry at this thug. There's basically a refusal to see him for who he is.
Because the glory of Russia and the USSR must be restored or some other horseshit.
Or whatever line of codswallop RT or Sputnik feeds you.

This guy would kill your family for looking at him crooked.
He's no saviour. He's a gang boss.
He's Christy Kinahan with a country.

Have a word with yourselves.

I've said this before but it bares repeating no one here has in any way defended Putin. I doubt anyone here even looks at RT or Sputnik. That all seems to be you projecting from what I can see. The world is a complicated place, discussing those complicated things does not in any way excuse or defend Putin. The idea that it does is outright fucking bizarre. Like waht's your issue with people discussing these things? Does it really annoy or freak you out you that much?

 

[seanc]

I notice from some recent "likes" that I've somehow gotten for posts from months ago, that I am repeating myself quite a lot.

I'll try not to do that, and endeavour to provide you guys with more worthy content.


I dread to trawl through the Brexit thread.......