the iRA and the Bank Robbery (2 Viewers)

[Latex lizzie]

"so who else wishes to call me names eh? sure who cares, Im only a shinner who lies, who isnt worth as much as a person as mumblin deaf head and who is apparently brainwashed.

Sad people.
thats all i can say. go on and believe what you're told like good citizens. I KNOW for a fact we will NEVER find out this amazing info that has turned Berties head. Never.

And not one of you who have been so anti replublican in this thread - not one of you will remember or ask why we where never told.
Sad people."




Cry me a river.

 

[Chocohead]

no, but i'll call you an eejit.

Theres nothing to be learned from this thread as you and your kind have obviously run out of steam. insult away, be a smartarse - but it doesnt get away from the fact you're acting like blinkered government controlled little sheep, even though you like to believe to be oh so independant.

I wash my hands of this thread due to the lack of proper oppositional debate

 

[Latex lizzie]

I wash my hands of this thread due to the lack of proper oppositional debate

go for whatever reason but don't go because of that. You've had 12 pages of it, just because your brain is switched firmly in the "arsehole" position and you can't see it.

later.

 

[MDR]

you great for talking bullshit. asd far as Im aware, the IRA demand quite a bit of proof before approaching anyone in respect to punishment beatings. Plus the people concerned are verbally warned in the first place.

let the courts decide? so you;re ignoring the fact that the RUC/PSNI are a big piece of anti nationalist shit? ever wonder why they have juryless courts in the north.

QUOTE]

As far as you're aware - AS FAR AS YOU'RE AWARE!!! VERBAL WARNINGS?? Are you for real? AND, what have the PSNI got to do with the courts? You don't need the police to take a court case.

Your word/opinion is of no value to me because it has no basis in reasoned argument or factual evidence. Instead you use bogus, unsubstantiated sophistry, that is pregnant with non-sequiters and contradictions. In short, you're a naive phoney, duped by rhetoric and simplistic arguments into believing that organised crime and community bullying are legitimate. You know nothing about the civilised conduct of government and as for the lightweight 'experience' you bring to the whole shooting match, that has a whole 'bloke-down-the-pub-told-me' credibility. That's what I mean.

Incidentally, you never answered my question about the evidence used by SF/IRA before shooting people.

 

[billygannon]

In all fairness, no one here is going to answer those questions.

There's a lot going on that yourself and myself don't know anything about.

Personally I have a problem with Sinn Fein in that they won't categorically distance themselves from the IRA.
It suits them to have an implicit association with them in that it helps their fundraising efforts. It also helps them to have this association in that it strengthens their hand at the negotiation table - in that they claim to have some exclusive access to the IRA.
Whether or not Sinn Fein are directly involved with the IRA, it suits them to be the middleman.

If it's discovered that the IRA are involved in this robbery, Sinn Fein are completely screwed.

A big reason why the finger of blame is being pointed towards the IRA, or certainly members of the IRA, is because this was the biggest single robbery in this islands and the complexity of the operation, and the subsequent laundering of the money stolen, could only really be carried out by a very organised criminal set-up.

Do me a favour and answer some of the questions below - theyve been asked and ignored so far in this thread. theres probably more, but since you wont answer any of these anyway, I cant be arsed digging out the rest:


1) Please explain the so called Spy Ring that brought down powersharing about 14 months ago Who was convicted? Since no-one was, why are SF still blamed for it?

2) How is the PIRA connected to the recent robbery?

3) Who's lying about Sinn Fein in the army council? McDowell(says they are) or Bertie/RUC? (says they arent)

4)Why is the news still on about the 'provisonal IRA Money Laundering' when the provos havent been connected to it at all.

5) Why is no-one asking how money got into secure RUC/PSNI facility?

6) How can people assume that those who vote for SF or are in SF are liars and not worth listening to?

 

[Chocohead]

yes, as far as Im aware. when the IRA warned off the people who were harrassing me, they gave a verbal warning, so stick that in your pipe. thats real enough for me. I dont give a shit if its real enough for you because your argument holds no water when compared to reality. believe it or not, thats your decision. If you choose not to believe it, that doesnt make it untrue - it just means you should find a few more people and ask their experiences. until you do, dont speak about things you havent a clue about. I think that whole 'heard from a man in the pub' thing describes you perfectly by the way.

You don't need the police to take a court case

sure you dont. go try it and see how far you get in the diplock courts,. again you talk of things you dont know anything about. as usual

Instead you use bogus, unsubstantiated sophistry, that is pregnant with non-sequiters and contradictions. In short, you're a naive phoney, duped by rhetoric and simplistic arguments into believing that organised crime and community bullying are legitimate. You know nothing about the civilised conduct of government and as for the lightweight 'experience' you bring to the whole shooting match, that has a whole 'bloke-down-the-pub-told-me' credibility. That's what I mean.

did you get the dictionary out for that?

tell me, whos rhetoric and simplistic arguments am I duped by? basically what the fuck planet are you from? get real, remove your head from your anus and have a look around ye eejit.

I know nothing about the civilised conduct of government? oh yeah, thats the 'lets blame sinn fein and all the no hope I cant thinkers will believe us' form of government isnt it?

You sir are a prime example of a sad person (dare I say anti republican bigot?) who obviously hasnt bothered looking at whats gong on. gibber away, its no skin off my nose.

 

[spiritualtramp]

nlgbbbblth, IFF, Goff, muertos vivientes!, spiritualtramp, Latex LIzzie

For a start I notice some of you come in to this thread, throw a few insults then disappear. Do me a favour and answer some of the questions below - theyve been asked and ignored so far in this thread. theres probably more, but since you wont answer any of these anyway, I cant be arsed digging out the rest:


1) Please explain the so called Spy Ring that brought down powersharing about 14 months ago Who was convicted? Since no-one was, why are SF still blamed for it?

fuck knows. There were other factors involved that brought down powersharing such as Sinn Feins total refusal to recognise the PSNI.

2) How is the PIRA connected to the recent robbery?

have you seen who was arrested? Not only does it appear to be the PIRA it was also Sinn Fein members.

3) Who's lying about Sinn Fein in the army council? McDowell(says they are) or Bertie/RUC? (says they arent) ?

personally I think McDowell was out of line for stating that. If he has the evidence he should go and arrest them. if not, he should shut up as it deflects from the issues.

4)Why is the news still on about the 'provisonal IRA Money Laundering' when the provos havent been connected to it at all.?

yawn.

5) Why is no-one asking how money got into secure RUC/PSNI facility? ?

I am quite curious to know that.

6) How can people assume that those who vote for SF or are in SF are liars and not worth listening to? ?

I never assumed that. Stop putting words into peoples mouths.

As I say I doubt any of you will answer any of those questions, except maybe with smart arsed remarks, but hopefully you will take the opportunity of backing your claims with some substantance and give us the answers with accompanying info to prove what you claim.

Can you kindly anwer a question for me - why did Martin McGuinness tell the BBC that he never even met Tommy Hanlon. The BBC then showed footage of McGuinness and Tommy Hanlon laughing and joking together at a Sinn Fein meeting. Why exactly did McGuinness lie?

 

[Chocohead]

If it's discovered that the IRA are involved in this robbery, Sinn Fein are completely screwed.

big time. I'll be the first to leave SF.

They realise that, ergo I think if they are lying, then its an incredibly stupid thing to do.

The fact will be borne out if we ever get the evidence. I dont think we will, so at this minute in time, I dont think they have lied.

 

[Chocohead]

In all fairness, no one here is going to answer those questions.

There's a lot going on that yourself and myself don't know anything about.

Personally I have a problem with Sinn Fein in that they won't categorically distance themselves from the IRA.
It suits them to have an implicit association with them in that it helps their fundraising efforts. It also helps them to have this association in that it strengthens their hand at the negotiation table - in that they claim to have some exclusive access to the IRA.
Whether or not Sinn Fein are directly involved with the IRA, it suits them to be the middleman.

If it's discovered that the IRA are involved in this robbery, Sinn Fein are completely screwed.

A big reason why the finger of blame is being pointed towards the IRA, or certainly members of the IRA, is because this was the biggest single robbery in this islands and the complexity of the operation, and the subsequent laundering of the money stolen, could only really be carried out by a very organised criminal set-up.

I agree with a lot of what you say. Personally I'd like to see the IRA out of the picture altogether. As far as I know, thats one of the main SF goals as its the only way towards peace. that and getting rid of the british army, UDA/ etc etc

 

[#10-7]

1) Please explain the so called Spy Ring that brought down powersharing about 14 months ago Who was convicted? Since no-one was, why are SF still blamed for it?

The PSNI raided the offices of Sinn Fein. They apparently found bugging and surveillance equipment. The independent monitoring commitee released the conclusion which was that Sinn Fein were spying on the Unionists and the British Government. as a result of these findings Financial restrictions were imposed on Sinn Fein, which were extended yesterday).
To date there has been no formal charges brought or anyone arressted.

I don't know why this is.

2) How is the PIRA connected to the recent robbery?

We don't know yet.

3) Who's lying about Sinn Fein in the army council? McDowell(says they are) or Bertie/RUC? (says they arent)

We don't know yet.
and Neither the PSNI or the Gardaí or Bertie have made a comment on who is in the Army Council.
Bertie said "i have no knowledge of who is in the Army Council, and neither does the Miniter for justice"

4)Why is the news still on about the 'provisonal IRA Money Laundering' when the provos havent been connected to it at all.

The Provos HAVE been connected to it. 'Connected' doesn't mean 'guilty' or 'charged' but if Sinn Fein members are involved, as it seems that they could be, then the IRA can be connected.

5) Why is no-one asking how money got into secure RUC/PSNI facility?

People are asking. But we don't know yet.

6) How can people assume that those who vote for SF or are in SF are liars and not worth listening to?

You can't stop people assuming what they like. and whether you like it or not, a lot of people in this country do not trust Sinn Fein.

 

[ITalkShite]

when the IRA warned off the people who were harrassing me, they gave a verbal warning, so stick that in your pipe. thats real enough for me.

I think this would be the man-down-the-pub attitude that Mr. Deaf Ro was referring to.

You can't seriously expect that to be taken as a realistic argument for the 'legitimacy' or whatever else of punishment beatings. If the government was to threaten to beat me up and whack bullets into my legs, do you think anyone would try to defend it by saying 'Well, he got a verbal warning'?

There are solid historical, political and social reasons why the IRA exists. But you can't expect to get away with a quasi-defence of punishment beatings that is as weak as that.

 

[spiritualtramp]

yes, as far as Im aware. when the IRA warned off the people who were harrassing me, they gave a verbal warning, so stick that in your pipe. thats real enough for me. I dont give a shit if its real enough for you because your argument holds no water when compared to reality. believe it or not, thats your decision. If you choose not to believe it, that doesnt make it untrue - it just means you should find a few more people and ask their experiences. until you do, dont speak about things you havent a clue about. I think that whole 'heard from a man in the pub' thing describes you perfectly by the way.

so what were you getting harrassed for? Was this in Omagh or Carlow? Can you not do what the the vast majority of people do and stay out of trouble or perhaps stick up for yourself?

Are you proud to have a gang of thugs fighting your battles for you? I wouldn't be.

 

[Chocohead]

fuck knows. There were other factors involved that brought down powersharing such as Sinn Feins total refusal to recognise the PSNI.

Since its basically the RUC and since the patton report wass totally ignored byt the british (who had commisisioned it) , they;re damned right to refuse recognition of the PSNI until the RUC are more representative

have you seen who was arrested? Not only does it appear to be the PIRA it was also Sinn Fein members.

One real IRA member was arrested. One person 'linked to sf' was arrested and released. Whats your point?



personally I think McDowell was out of line for stating that. If he has the evidence he should go and arrest them. if not, he should shut up as it deflects from the issues.

yawn.

amazing answer

I am quite curious to know that.

sa,me here

I never assumed that. Stop putting words into peoples mouths.

I didnt say you personally - mublin deaf head reckons so. bigot is the word that springs to mind

Can you kindly anwer a question for me - why did Martin McGuinness tell the BBC that he never even met Tommy Hanlon. The BBC then showed footage of McGuinness and Tommy Hanlon laughing and joking together at a Sinn Fein meeting. Why exactly did McGuinness lie?

that is a very good question and I cant answer it for you. Ive met loads of people that I cant remember having met - I cant say if its a slip of the memory or something more serious.

 

[ITalkShite]

that is a very good question and I cant answer it for you. Ive met loads of people that I cant remember having met - I cant say if its a slip of the memory or something more serious.

Ah, come on.

Don't insult our intelligence with that kind of thing.

 

[Latex lizzie]

Your mind set upsets me greatly. It sounds like you condone this sort of thing, and really at the back of it you support the IRA in the business of punishment beatings? "rough justice and far from perfect"? surely you should be saying that this sort of thing just shouldn't occur? how can a democraticly installed police force do it's job properly when criminals are opperating above the law and supported by a minority of the populace? using draconian beatings to resolve matters. Personally I would rather my own beating everytime then suffer the indignity of stooping to use hired thugs to do my dirty work for me.

so what were you getting harrassed for? Was this in Omagh or Carlow? Can you not do what the the vast majority of people do and stay out of trouble or perhaps stick up for yourself?

Are you proud to have a gang of thugs fighting your battles for you? I wouldn't be..[/QUOTE]

like I said round in circles..

 

[spiritualtramp]

I didnt say you personally - mublin deaf head reckons so. bigot is the word that springs to mind .

you seem to call everyone that disagrees with you and Sinn Fein a bigot. Pot kettle black.

that is a very good question and I cant answer it for you. Ive met loads of people that I cant remember having met - I cant say if its a slip of the memory or something more serious.

such a predictable answer.

 

[Problematic]

As far as you're aware - AS FAR AS YOU'RE AWARE!!! VERBAL WARNINGS?? Are you for real? AND, what have the PSNI got to do with the courts? You don't need the police to take a court case.

Your word/opinion is of no value to me because it has no basis in reasoned argument or factual evidence. Instead you use bogus, unsubstantiated sophistry, that is pregnant with non-sequiters and contradictions. In short, you're a naive phoney, duped by rhetoric and simplistic arguments into believing that organised crime and community bullying are legitimate. You know nothing about the civilised conduct of government and as for the lightweight 'experience' you bring to the whole shooting match, that has a whole 'bloke-down-the-pub-told-me' credibility. That's what I mean.

Incidentally, you never answered my question about the evidence used by SF/IRA before shooting people.

Mumblin Deaf Ro, all of the above reads like a really polished insult but at its core it is essentially a pile of horseshit. You again dismiss the reality of many working class communities in the six counties as communities filled with thugs who have wanton criminality coursing through their veins. The policing issue is the issue at the core of the problems within the GFA, this issue is complex and after the last thirty years isn`t something that is going to be fixed easily. Nationalists in the six counties have zero faith in the RUC/PSNI, you accuse chocohead of knowing "nothing about the civilized conduct of government". Are you having a laugh ? Seriously, do you have any idea of the effects the "civilized conduct of government" has had on the nationislist community in the six counties over the last 40 and more years ? The people you say are victims of community "bullying" are the "victims" that are giving Sinn Fein nearly 100% electoral support. I`ll go back to my earlier question, are these people stupid or do they recognise the need for community policing in the absence of a trustworthy government force. It is all well and good for you to dismiss these people are scumbags and thugs while you`ve had the privelage of living in a safe and well policed society.

 

[Chocohead]

lorcanzo - thanks for answering those questions.

the point Im trying to make is that theres alot of things we dont know yet - but everyone seems to have made up their minds as to what has happened. as ive said before in this thread, we will have to wait and see.

as ive also said though, we wont hear anything to prove any thing - just like the Sp ring. All arrested were released and no charges made. ergo, there was no spy ring. this will be much the same.

Just like the cork etc arrests. Insinuations made, people arrested, people released and the public then believe the provos were involved, even though theres nothing (as usual ) to back that up.

basically this country makes me sick. I certinaly am not proud to be an irishman (but then lizzie probably thinks Im british anyway.

As to people not trusting SF - I dont see how they can trust any political party, but I dont see anyone slagging off anyone here besides the shinners getting it in the neck.

 

[rocktopus]

No link between IRA and SinnFein?

Quick! Someone tell Adams an Co. that someone( securorcrats or Irish Independant jounalists no doubt)have hacked into www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/) and are selling these!

 

[Chocohead]

you seem to call everyone that disagrees with you and Sinn Fein a bigot. Pot kettle black.

No - people who think they know the person I am through who i vote for. t hose people are bigots.

such a predictable answer.

what the hell do you expect? Obviously its predicable as my name isnt martin mcguinness