the click track (1 Viewer)

[snap-apple]

who here uses it?
who doesn't use it?
who hates it?

 

[egg_]

We've used it, as you know. You can't just jump into using it though - everyone has to get used to playing with it, the whole band has to get used to playing together with it (we had 3 sets of headphones and all listened to it that way - if you're just gonna have your drummer listening to it and are gonna be recording live you need a very strong-minded drummer). It takes weeks if not months

We got results that we couldn't have got without it, cos our timing really tends to drift (and, listening to local releases, we're not the only ones) - it's hard to notice live, but obvious on record. Another thing - when we'd been playing with the click for months, it took us a while to adjust to playing without it, but when we did our timing had improved to the point where I'd almost have been confident recording without

 

[Pantone247]

yeah like Egg_ says practise loads with it if your going to use it, don't make it a spur of thew moment thing.

we started using one on the Capratone album (back in 1876) and unsurprisingly it didn't really come together as Cian had nly used one a few times before and didn't really like it anyway, and we ditched it.

also if there is even the slightest chance you might do some computer jggery later on use a click as you can then mess about with the drums no probs later as long you've got your tempo set and you can cue up samples and funny noisey bits no probs as well.

 

[MDR]

I just use fairly basic drum beats from a keyboard; I find it easier to find your place in a bar that way rather than using a metronome. I let the drummer play with it, and then record everything else in time with the drummer, irrespective of his fidelity to the click track. It's probably not everyone's cup of tea, but I've found it better than trying to reproduce metronome perfect drum tracks, a process which can sap the enthusiasm from the performance.

Bear in mind though, I don't play with a regular band and so have to borrow a drummer; therefore I can't train the drummer to use a metronome.

 

[Beanstalk]

I'm a big fan of click tracks for recording. Using them means that you can add a lot of MIDI/Soundfont intruments that
a) you don't have
b) you can't play
c) don't exist
There are some great 'fabricated' sounds available these days...its not all cheesy 80's keyboard muck.

Also a click track makes it so easy to edit...fucked up line from a chorus? No problem...we'll take it from the previous one. Without a click track, you're guaranteed that wouldn't work due to speeding up/slowing down.

Some people don't like them because the concentration on the timing takes away from the performance, but recording wise, all you need is one person to lay a bland guide track down and the other band members don't need to think about the timing, when listening to the guide drum/guitar.

 

[snap-apple]

thanks folks - keep 'em coming.

btw just to explain - we tried recording to click and found that due to lack of practice we were basically fu*%ed. so lesson 1 with the clik: practice, practice, practice...

the sort of music we do wouldn't be embellished much afterwards with computer jiggery and midi (don't have the expertise for one thing and wouldn't suit the music for most songs) so personally i'm kinda keen on keeping the live feel and good performance side of things. we also have some songs that speed up/slow down considerably as part of the live dynamic so trying to change them to being a steady beat is a nightmare for me (bassist) and the drummer, it basically mean rewriting our parts and relearning the song. but i like the idea of using a basic keyboard drum beat instead of the click - it's so lifeless.

i suppose i'm looking for info from spefcific bands so i can listen back to their stuff and compare and contrast.

 

[Beanstalk]

Conor, I used Cubase to generate click tracks, and its extremely flexible as far as tempo goes...you can include tempo change in fractions of a bar (even fractions of a beat!), so, for example if you wanted to slow down during bar 54, you can assign a different tempo for each beat of the bar...

54.1 140
54.2 138
54.3 135
54.4.1 130
54.4.3 120

Getting a bit anal now, but the point is...a click track is not as rigid as you might think...if you put a small bit of effort in, you have complete control and flexibility.


By the way, I would never use a click track for playing live, unless I needed a 'fake' accompaniment...why would you bother?

 

[snap-apple]

Originally posted by Beanstalk

By the way, I would never use a click track for playing live, unless I needed a 'fake' accompaniment...why would you bother?

ah no - not live, what i meant was when we wrote these songs and practiced them they sped up and slowed down intentionally but when it came to recording with a static click i found it difficult. none of us have the patience or expertise to program a whole click with tempo changes unfortunately.

 

[Beanstalk]

Originally posted by conor


none of us have the patience or expertise to program a whole click with tempo changes unfortunately.

Its really not that difficult...you just sit at the PC (or whatever equipment you use) with a guitar in your lap and thrash it out...the rest is all maths really.

So you don't need much expertise...the patience required lessens as the expertise grows. Cool...That sounds like a motto for life...I think I'll become a full time philosopher...just sit around my house all day philosophising and making click track analogies.

 

[MDR]

Have you considered recording your dummy tracks live in a rehearsal room? Your drummer can then record later, while listening to that and you can build from there.

 

[snap-apple]

Originally posted by Mumblin Deaf Ro
Have you considered recording your dummy tracks live in a rehearsal room? Your drummer can then record later, while listening to that and you can build from there.

!bing nye ha! record the guide tracks before going into the studio. that'd be an idea (d'oh). might fiddle about with fruity loops as well for the tracks that don't change tempo. for the ones that do i'm still more in favour of doing a live take instead of being restricted by a click - but that's just a personal preference. ta mdr.

 

[Speed Racer]

Brian Wilson from the Beach Boys once said that as well as the metronome, there are other means of perfecting your timing with practice. With other machines or gadgets. He said he preferred a loud clock. Also when he was makin early albums they used the sound oh the waves breaking on the beach as a guide for love songs. Actually practicing on the beach! Oh how romantic.

 

[MDR]

I live to give.

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by conor


!bing nye ha! record the guide tracks before going into the studio. that'd be an idea (d'oh). might fiddle about with fruity loops as well for the tracks that don't change tempo. for the ones that do i'm still more in favour of doing a live take instead of being restricted by a click - but that's just a personal preference. ta mdr.

mmmmmmm...... we tried this..... very bad for groove, watch out! Unless you have to record very melodic stuff.

For my experience best is to record drum bass and guitar at the same time but on separate tracks to obtain that groove you don't have when recording separately. All the rest afterwards.

Then if you manage to do that along a click you can also overdub some samples and stuff

 

[#10-7]

yeah i'd agree with alex. when we recorded our last ep we had probs with a track because of the clicktrack. we recorded the drums to the click track... then the bass without the click over the drums. the picky lead part was done over the click and the distorted chord parts were done without the click.
it worked a treat.

we added the spoons, the theramin, the dogbarks, the 27 piece orchestra and the boyzone choir later....

 

[dubh in seattle]

....ah, but the boys' choir were such dicks! Whining about "those marshall amps hurt me" and "that bass player made me soil my vestments" worthless bastids!....anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, a thing that always helps me (when I'm playing drums in studio to a click instead of engineering) is to have earplugs in under the phones, and have it cranked superloud so you feel it more than hear it, a simple drum machine toing/whack beat is better/easier to play to than "TUNK!TUNK!TUNK!," but it's possible to have the click or beat in drummer's phones so loud it bleeds into drum mics. And, if you don't have the ability to have individual headphone mixes, it'll be HORRIBLE for anybody else tracking simultaneously. It takes practise--lots. But it'll indeed make everybody tighter if you keep it up. There's some great but not cheap yokes that'll clamp on your snare and based on the vibrations it gets, it'll interpolate what tempo you're playing and display it with red LED's, it updates continuously, but $$. Best known one is called The russian dragon (get it? rushing dragging, marketing people are so clever )