[Sunday Business Post] Irish music industry hit by downloading (1 Viewer)

[aoboa]

you paint a very bleak picture Alan.

where do you see the relentless reissuing / remastering of back catalogue stuff?

no sign of stopping and there's a relatively healthy market out there - albeit some releases being limited editions like Rhino Handmade / Hip-O-Select etc

It's a worst case scenario but it's a serious possibility.

I reckon that the reissue market is a symptom of the times unfortunately.
If there was enough good new music being pushed people would have less call to seek out reissues. It's a bit of a last gasp really.
If it all goes tits up that market will go the same way too.

 

[aoboa]

Another thing to be aware of in all this mess is that there will now be no new better quality digital audio formats pushed into the consumer market.
Anyone here who records will testify to the difference between CD quality (16bit 44.1K) and hi resolution DAW masters (normally 24bit 96k).

It is not worth anyones while to develop or market this technology to consumers.

 

[Vinnie]

I have not scrolled down to read any responses to this but I would consider this to be the fucking definitive experience of a deeply talented & well respected solo/collaborator artist in the midst of this debate

I've been sticking stuff out for free on my website for over a year and to be honest, in terms of feedback recieved etc, it's a waste of time.
Thousands of people have downloaded the releases.
Loads of the tracks have appeared in peoples mixes online.
If you search Soulseek or the torrent sites the tracks are all there.
F**k all people take the time to send an email to say thanks.
The only people who have taken the time to acknowledge the music have been a few bloggers.
So, to those of you who say that there is any reward in giving your music away for free don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Vinnie]

This debate has unfortunately been reduced to the zeroes and ones that depersonalise the debate in the first place. I was forced into arguing the legality of downloading because folk were suggesting that its fine by virtue of numbers doing it – I felt obliged to argue that it is ILLEGAL even though we all do it. I know that. I have no interest in prosecuting downloaders. That’s fucking ridiculous. They are no more criminals than I am when I jaywalk but the 50 stone man who walks in front of cars and just sits there in the middle of the road is also a jaywalker. Traffic flows when we cross the road – it has always flowed and we all assumed that it always would but I am no longer convinced – is there a collective digital conscience to put that fat cunt in jail and keep traffic flowing?

I also know that this might be the beginning of a revolution – not the revolution of greedy already pampered lazy middle class scabs that we are seeing now – but when this technology is available to folk that have never had access to underground music hitherto will there still be folk making interesting music for them to access? The majors will fall and nobody here will lament their passing but if the indies are no longer there to pick up the slack then what? Will anyone here convinced by their own generic rhetoric be willing to risk the cash that we do to make the art that we all take for granted? We're not heroes by any stretch but you'll miss us if we disappear.

 

[Anthony]

Bought a new album today by a local ramones-style band from Vancouver on a small label. I was dissapointed to to see the insert was just a single piece of paper, no lyrics, no nice pictures etc. Maybe it's because I've been following this thread but the first thing I thought of was that this was a sign of the times. Artwork, the first casuality when money is tight.

 

[pete]

Bought a new album today by a local ramones-style band from Vancouver on a small label. I was dissapointed to to see the insert was just a single piece of paper, no lyrics, no nice pictures etc. Maybe it's because I've been following this thread but the first thing I thought of was that this was a sign of the times. Artwork, the first casuality when money is tight.

shitty packaging predates file sharing by a long time - you could just as easily blame it for the rise in filesharing.

 

[shower another shower]

Bought a new album today by a local ramones-style band from Vancouver on a small label. I was dissapointed to to see the insert was just a single piece of paper, no lyrics, no nice pictures etc. Maybe it's because I've been following this thread but the first thing I thought of was that this was a sign of the times. Artwork, the first casuality when money is tight.

At least we folded the paper!

 

[Vinnie]

In fairness Anthony, that might just be the extent of their budget. I remember buying the worst packaged most amazing songs at loads of hope gigs when i was 15.It was always about the songs first and foremost and that's what we are talking about here

Bought a new album today by a local ramones-style band from Vancouver on a small label. I was dissapointed to to see the insert was just a single piece of paper, no lyrics, no nice pictures etc. Maybe it's because I've been following this thread but the first thing I thought of was that this was a sign of the times. Artwork, the first casuality when money is tight.

 

[Anthony]

shitty packaging predates file sharing by a long time - you could just as easily blame it for the rise in filesharing.

Well I did say "maybe it's because of this thread" that I thought that. But I can certainly see it happening. Like if our latest album was a jewel case instead of a digipak it would be paid for by now.

 

[Vinnie]

we just had to make similar decisions and we said fuck it. We're gonna trust in folk. Oh oh.

Well I did say "maybe it's because of this thread" that I thought that. But I can certainly see it happening. Like if our latest album was a jewel case instead of a digipak it would be paid for by now.

 

[Vinnie]

Of course, there is also the argument that there is already enough music made to keep twenty generations ticking over. I would definitely vote for a bill outlawing all music for two centuries pending an exam to prove that we have bothered our hole listening to what has already been made. And failing that a bill to shut me up for at least a year.

This debate has unfortunately been reduced to the zeroes and ones that depersonalise the debate in the first place. I was forced into arguing the legality of downloading because folk were suggesting that its fine by virtue of numbers doing it – I felt obliged to argue that it is ILLEGAL even though we all do it. I know that. I have no interest in prosecuting downloaders. That’s fucking ridiculous. They are no more criminals than I am when I jaywalk but the 50 stone man who walks in front of cars and just sits there in the middle of the road is also a jaywalker. Traffic flows when we cross the road – it has always flowed and we all assumed that it always would but I am no longer convinced – is there a collective digital conscience to put that fat cunt in jail and keep traffic flowing?

I also know that this might be the beginning of a revolution – not the revolution of greedy already pampered lazy middle class scabs that we are seeing now – but when this technology is available to folk that have never had access to underground music hitherto will there still be folk making interesting music for them to access? The majors will fall and nobody here will lament their passing but if the indies are no longer there to pick up the slack then what? Will anyone here convinced by their own generic rhetoric be willing to risk the cash that we do to make the art that we all take for granted? We're not heroes by any stretch but you'll miss us if we disappear.

 

[Vinnie]

What?

 

[hugh]

Vinnie's drunk

 

[Vinnie]

You can download a jameson 12 year from my website

http://www.youcanhaveawhiskeyifyouagreewithmeyoubastard.com

Vinnie's drunk

 

[billygannon]

But .... the real potential danger is the impact it has on medium level indie type artists with a reasonable international profile. Take someone like Pinback for example. They are probably scraping by, just about making a living, and doing it full-time. If an important revenue source like CD/album sales is taken away then it quickly goes from being viable for them to do this full time to completely unviable (I know there's all sorts of suggestions put forward here about how this can be made up but I'm not convinced by any of them .. having said that I don't rule them out). Anyway, Pinback can no longer afford to do it full-time, so they go and get jobs. Since they are true artists and love doing it they keep producing music of course, but now they can't tour, they rarely play outside San Diego, they get bugger all money back from what they do so they can't afford proper studios and decent equipment anymore, YOU never get to see them and the only reason you download their stuff (legally or paying for it) is because you knew about them already before the "fall". Ha ha!

You've hit the nail on the Hugh. This is absolutely true and that is what will happen. It's totally shit. It will mean less bands will record music. It will probably affect interesting music.

So if Pinback fans want them to keep making music full time and being able to tour, they'll have to fork out the money in some way.
Because the alternative of having the music for free is there, if they have to go and buy the CDs then they're effectively doing it out the goodness of their hearts (i.e. it's patronage).

Because Mp3's are very easy to produce and very easy to distribute they will be the main format for recorded music.
So what needs to happen is a change in how musicians are funded to actually write and record music. That's something that people will have to sort out.

The copyright law around recorded music is redundant because it can't be enforced.

 

[Vinnie]

Fuck off you pompous little cunt

Of course, there is also the argument that there is already enough music made to keep twenty generations ticking over. I would definitely vote for a bill outlawing all music for two centuries pending an exam to prove that we have bothered our hole listening to what has already been made. And failing that a bill to shut me up for at least a year.

 

[Vinnie]

Who hacked my account?

Vinnie's drunk

 

[Vinnie]

I mean Hugh hacked my account?

Who hacked my account?

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

As the major acts stop releasing cds/vinyl - the pressing plants will shut down. Those that remain will be too expensive cos they'll have to make up the shortfall somewhere.
Meaning that it won't make financial sense for people who make interesting music to release records any more.
They'll be stuck trying to flog the odd mp3/flac which people won't buy cos all music is free now.
Music now has no value, so no one reviews it, meaning the people who make interesting music have no form of feedback except for gigs which they can't get cos no one knows who the f**k they are.
There are no record labels anymore, so there is no filter for shit music. As a result, it becomes too hard to find good music, so no one bothers anymore.

i think its a incorrect to say that because nobody pays for music then nobody must value it. people may consume more music that they dont value these days because its free but good music will still have the same value to people who are open to it as it always has regardless of whether they take the time to express their appreciation to the music's creator. i've always thought that the enjoyment i get out of a good album is beyond monetary value so the fact that i can buy it for 15 or 20 quid is pretty good. but because of the climate its produced in (ie mass production of cds or records etc) the financial value of the music is restricted (in a completely meanignless and artificial way) to the market price of a cd or record. that says nothing about the value of the music to either the musician or the listener, its just a fairly random matter of fact. filesharing reduces the financial value of the music to almost nothing but it makes no difference to the value of the music at all. it means big changes to individuals involved in making music perhaps but if your talking about music surely thats a bit beside the point. it'll all work out lads, dont worry.

 

[coast to coast]

It's a worst case scenario but it's a serious possibility.

I reckon that the reissue market is a symptom of the times unfortunately.
If there was enough good new music being pushed people would have less call to seek out reissues. It's a bit of a last gasp really.
If it all goes tits up that market will go the same way too.

Its not really a serious possibility though. People love music, people will always review, write about it, tell their friends about.

And just because the profits are slumping now, doesn't mean they necessarily continue all the way to zero. More likely they will find some sort of equilibrium as there is still a demand for physical product, and probably always will be, at least for the forseeable future.