Saddam pleads not guilty (1 Viewer)

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Defiant Saddam pleads not guilty
Wednesday October 19 2005

A defiant Saddam Hussein pleaded not guilty to charges of crimes against humanity, refusing to recognise the court on the first day of a trial that could see him sentenced to death.

Facing the first of what could be several cases over atrocities committed during his quarter-century in power, Saddam entered the Baghdad courtroom Wednesday carrying a copy of the Koran and wearing a dark suit and open-necked shirt.

"I said what I said, I am not guilty, I am innocent," Saddam told the court after charges that included torture, murder and forced imprisonment were read out.

A bearded Saddam, who was not handcuffed, described himself as the "president of Iraq" according to footage broadcast from the courtroom with a delay of about 30 minutes, but refused to give his name.

"I don't acknowledge either the entity that authorises you nor the aggression because everything based on falsehood is falsehood," Saddam said from the waist-high metal cage he was sitting in.

The presiding judge, Kurdish magistrate Rizkar Mohammed Amin, looking increasingly exasperated, said: "For the record, the witness refuses to give his name."

Security was tight at the grey marble courtroom in the heart of Baghdad's highly-fortified Green Zone, where Saddam and seven of his former henchmen face trial for the murder of 143 Shiite villagers from Dujail, north of the capital.

The panel of five judges, sitting in front of large gold-coloured scales of justice, could sentence them to death penalty if convicted.

"They are charged with murder, forced expulsion, imprisonment, failure to comply with international law and torture," Amin told the eight, all of whom pleaded not guilty.

"These defendants have personal responsibility in the case," he said, adding that according to the legal code, the charges carry the death penalty.

The defendants include Barzan Ibrahim Hassan al-Tikriti, Saddam's half-brother and a former director of the feared Mukhabarat intelligence service, and former vice-president Taha Yassin Ramadan, one of the regime's "enforcers."

The eight were sitting in steel-barred waist-high pens equipped with microphones, some wearing traditional Arab chequered headdresses. Several followed Saddam's lead and refused to give their names.

"Trial of the Century" trumpeted the headline in Al-Bayan, the mouthpiece of the Shiite Dawa party of Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari. "Iraqis will finally see their former dictator at the mercy of Iraqi justice."

Two mortar bombs landed in the Green Zone shortly before the trial, without causing any casualties, following calls by Saddam's supporters for attacks.

Taking his lead from Saddam, Ramadan also defied the court, telling the judge only: "I repeat what president Saddam Hussein said."

Ramadan was vice president under Saddam from 1991 and one of his regime's "enforcers".

Tikriti, meanwhile, was instructed to indicate where his lawyer was.

"Where do you want me to see my lawyer", he answered sharply before giving a dismissive wave of his hand and sitting down.

Mohammed Azzam al-Ali, a former local Baath official who is also on trial, told the judge: "I was born in 1943, I am a mechanic and I worked in several towns near Dujail."

"What did I do to find myself in this court," Ali asked, adding: "I swear before God I will only tell the truth."

Saddam's lawyer Khalil al-Dulaimi told AFP he had met the former president on Tuesday and described his morale as "excellent."

"He ... is totally convinced of his innocence." Dulaimi said he would ask for an adjournment of at least three months.

The case will make history in the region as it marks the first time an Arab leader is being put on trial for crimes against his own people.

Saddam was captured in a hole near his hometown of Tikrit in December 2003 after months on the run following his ouster in April of that year by US-led invasion forces.

Armed US marshals were patrolling outside the courthouse in a former Baath Party headquarters palace, while journalists covering the trial were subject to full-body X-rays as well as usual checks.

Jaafari, whose brother and four cousins were executed during the old regime, said Iraqis would shed "no tears" for Saddam.

"I would like to see the trial take place and justice to be done and to be seen to be done," he was quoted by the Washington Times as saying.

"I do not rule out that there are groups who will use this opportunity to raise violence, but as far as Iraqis overall, there will be no tears for Saddam Hussein."

Saddam, 68, is likely to face subsequent charges over the gassing of 5,000 people in the Kurdish village of Halabja in March 1988; the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war, during which around one million people were killed; the 1990 invasion of Kuwait, and the violent suppression of a Shiite uprising the following year.

Yet these more high-profile cases have been put aside for a relatively obscure case: the 1982 killing of 143 residents of the Shiite village of Dujail, allegedly as revenge for an attempt on Saddam's life.

In Dujail, villagers, including women clutching pictures of slain relatives, waved banners urging "death for Saddam Hussein".

Human Rights Watch, which exhaustively documented atrocities committed during Saddam's regime, has expressed doubts the trial will be fair.

The US-based group said problems with the tribunal and its statute include the lack of a requirement to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, disputes among Iraqi politicians over court control and a ban on any commutation of death sentences.

The White House said it expects the trial to follow "basic international standards."

"This is an Iraqi process. The Iraqi people will make the decision about how they hold Saddam Hussein to account for his crimes against humanity and his brutalities against the Iraqi people," said spokesman Scott McClellan.

The highly-anticipated trial comes just days after a largely peaceful referendum on a proposed new constitution to lay down the democratic foundations for Iraq after Saddam's tyrannical rule.

The vote, the second since Saddam was toppled, is widely expected to approve the charter, though election officials say results will be unknown for days because of "anomalies."
 
Well it was more like this
The judge asked him his name and obviously Saddam said in Irish laymans terms " you know who the fuck I am"
 
DuncheeKnifed said:
so, do people reckon he should get the death penalty or not?

the death penalty debate rears its ugly head again....

it's a toughie; when you think of the countless lives he ruined etc, is it more effective to get rid of him or have him sit behind bars to contemplate his crimes?

how do people feel about Nuremberg?
 
La La said:
the death penalty debate rears its ugly head again....

it's a toughie; when you think of the countless lives he ruined etc, is it more effective to get rid of him or have him sit behind bars to contemplate his crimes?

how do people feel about Nuremberg?

they should just never excecute guys like him, aparts from if being hypocritical in the first place I reckon it would be much better to let him think about the crimes that he has commited for the rest of his life, maybe he is defiant now but one day at later stage it may just click with him that the attrocities he and his family commited were wrong(maybe some admition of this could even heal some wounds for some people .there's always hell afterwards if you believe in that sort of retribution. Nuremburg annoyed the hell out me(I have a wonderful turn of phrase I know). All those guys should have been kept alive and held up as a living example of how evil people can be, studied closely and learned from. Imagine if the allies could have got hitler alive? so many questions could be answered and maybe history even itself altered in a very dramatic way. Basicaly I'm getting into the old death penalty thing here and how fucked up it is no matter what your crime.

other notable cant believe we cant study them nutbags?

shipman?
dalmer?

How did I get here? this is not my beautiful house.
 
Latex lizzie said:
they should just never excecute guys like him, aparts from if being hypocritical in the first place I reckon it would be much better to let him think about the crimes that he has commited for the rest of his life, maybe he is defiant now but one day at later stage it may just click with him that the attrocities he and his family commited were wrong(maybe some admition of this could even heal some wounds for some people .there's always hell afterwards if you believe in that sort of retribution. Nuremburg annoyed the hell out me(I have a wonderful turn of phrase I know). All those guys should have been kept alive and held up as a living example of how evil people can be, studied closely and learned from. Imagine if the allies could have got hitler alive? so many questions could be answered and maybe history even itself altered in a very dramatic way. Basicaly I'm getting into the old death penalty thing here and how fucked up it is no matter what your crime.

other notable cant believe we cant study them nutbags?

shipman?
dalmer?

How did I get here? this is not my beautiful house.

did you mean dahmer?
i wasnt sure.

anyway, half those nuremberg cunts topped themselves anyway.
did you ever see that program on tv about the guy who executed the nuremberg nazis?
he used to rig the hanging technique to fuck it up so it wouldnt work correctly.

ehm, im getting on a tangent here.
as much as i want saddam dead, i think its worse punishment to have him sit in prison til he fuckin fades away. and anyway, he'd be considered something of a martyr among his fans if he was to be put to the death, right?
 
Not really concerned out his fans currently they are few and far between in Iraq now..but a generation from now he could be held up for some kind of celeb cause a la neo nazis do with hitler now. Time has a way of doing those things. Much better to let him fade away and have and ignoble death eating cheetos in an american jail some place.
 
killing him now would make him a great icon for knobheads, waiting a couple of decades for some choice adult-nappies and loss of muscle control footage would be far better punishment.
 
Latex lizzie said:
All those guys should have been kept alive and held up as a living example of how evil people can be, studied closely and learned from. Imagine if the allies could have got hitler alive? so many questions could be answered and maybe history even itself altered in a very dramatic way.

this part is kinda silly i think.
 
oh shit said:
this part is kinda silly i think.

i'd kinda agree a little bit there, i personally feel that fuck all has been learned from the nazi's and pretty muhc the same situation has occured and will continue to occur til humans fuck off this planet and leave the ants and rats to have a better world. Seriously though i just think that most people if you told me, look these people are the problem, we'll get rid of em for you, you wont even have to see it, it'll be done real discreetly and you will inherit so much of their wealth, most humans i feel would be willing to turn a blind eye, and peoples apathy and general unfeeling attitude to others is always something you can always rely on. Or maybe i just have a pessimistic view of humans.
 

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