Releasing Music Yourself -versus- Not Unless We Get a Deal (1 Viewer)

[MDR]

By the way, this arrangement explains why labels can sign so many bands, as one break-even band covers five that don't make a penny.

Also, sometimes a label just signs a band so that noone else can.

 

[MrT]

Nah theres lots of good bands (or bands with commercial potential) that never get deals. And lots of medicore/shit bands that get signed. Being "good" is only one piece of the puzzle.

Originally, my opinion on this was if you don't have a deal there's a reason you don't have a deal. Why would you go pouring your own (borrowed) money into releasing a single if the industry has not taken notice of any demo or gig to date?

 

[waterfall]

Nah theres lots of good bands (or bands with commercial potential) that never get deals. And lots of medicore/shit bands that get signed. Being "good" is only one piece of the puzzle.

Originally, my opinion on this was if you don't have a deal there's a reason you don't have a deal. Why would you go pouring your own (borrowed) money into releasing a single if the industry has not taken notice of any demo or gig to date?

Yeah Originally is the key word in what I said there there.

The opening post has to be taken in it's entirity but unfortunately hasn't.

 

[classic seanc]

I mean if you make an investment... say like buying shares... and then the company goes belly up... you can't go to the company and then say give me my investment back.

Yes you can.

 

[Pantone247]

Jim O'Rourke doesn't even MAKE music anymore.

well that sure showed me...

 

[Pantone247]

Didn't he release Mizu No Nai Umi last year? Is that new stuff?

he did record and write for beth ortons last album and mix joanna newsom record and did a new loose fur record, all of that was last year

but I'm sure Mitchums right

 

[Space]

I reckon it might be a possiblity that the people/bands being shafted for the money have had contracts with some small clause that they managed to break leaving them owing the record company the advance. I'm no lawyer and don't really have any interest in how major label contracts works.

It's all in the small print see?

 

[waterfall]

It's a loan. If future earnings don't materialise, then the investor has to take the hit. That's the way it works in the normal business world.

That's exactly the same as say... Duncan Banatyne... on Dragon's Den... he gives 50K to some guy who has come up with a new kind of thingymejig. Now, say the thingymejig doesn't sell and the company goes belly up, Duncan Banatyne can't go after the guy to get his 50K back.
I mean... why is it any different for music labels? If it is... well, then bands should just not bother with dealing with them.
Sounds like a load of bollix.

A "loan" by definition needs to be paid back.
An "Investment" may reap dividends but there is a risk it may not.

You're confusing the two.

An advance is a loan, not an investment. The loan amount may be based on expected future income but the loan recipient has to repay regrdless of how the future pans out.

make sense?

 

[egg_]

Being "good" is only one piece of the puzzle.

Indeed
Getting onto a label's roster is like getting a job - you have to have what they are looking for, and you have to be willing to do what you're told.

 

[MDR]

I reckon it might be a possiblity that the people/bands being shafted for the money have had contracts with some small clause that they managed to break leaving them owing the record company the advance. I'm no lawyer and don't really have any interest in how major label contracts works.

It's all in the small print see?

I think that when the Frames got dumped for the first time they were let off the debt. In reality, it's hardly worth chasing the debt unless you think the band is going to make money for someone else.

 

[Mitchum]

well that sure showed me...

Sold all his gear on eBay last year too. He's moved to Japan & into film-making full-time.
I'm not sure what his last music 'project' was?! either The New Blockaders or Grizzly Man I think.
*shrugs*

 

[Vinnie]

In my experience the major label music industry is populated largely with people who know next to nothing about music. They are often people who trade in buzz words and leech off hype which may or may not have been created by somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about in the first place. It's basically chinese whispers for the easily excited.

 

[Pantone247]

I can't believe no one has posted up THAT article by Steve Albini

or the other one by Jack Enididiciicccooococcc fella who record Bleach

time was a thread wouldn't get to page three without THAT Albini article

 

[waterfall]

I reckon it might be a possiblity that the people/bands being shafted for the money have had contracts with some small clause that they managed to break leaving them owing the record company the advance. I'm no lawyer and don't really have any interest in how major label contracts works.

It's all in the small print see?

If you don't get a good music solicitor to read your contract and advise before signing you deserve all shafting.

But there's always ways they can shaft you...

 

[MDR]

If I owned a major record label I'd be asking hard questions about my A&R staff signing loads of bands who made no money and who the company dumped after one album.

 

[MDR]

I can't believe no one has posted up THAT article by Steve Albini

or the other one by Jack Enididiciicccooococcc fella who record Bleach

time was a thread wouldn't get to page three without THAT Albini article

When you log on to thumped you have to tick a box saying that you have read, and agree with, those articles.

 

[Space]

So anyway, has anybody got any ball park figures and how much it'd cost to put out a 7" single and what needs to be done?

And likewise for a 10 track cd album?

 

[hugh]

My basic understanding of a record contract is as follows:

Thank you Ro. Your understanding concurs with my understanding and you have put it all very clearly.

That €1 debt carries over the the next release. If the band is dumped, the label may or may not drop the €1 debt.

The "may or may not" is the nub of the matter isn't it? Waterfall seems to be maintaining that this is up to the label as to whether they go after the band or not for this money. This could well be the case (and it obviously depends on the contract) but as I have said already I find it hard to believe that the individuals concerned could end up indebted afterwards if the label do decide to pursue it. If the band is an ongoing concern then sure, the label probably have a case to recoup their investment. But surely you just break up the band and form another one? What's the big problem? You're probably sick of those tossers you've been jamming with for the last few years anyway.

 

[Vinnie]

Why should naivety deserve punishment?

If you don't get a good music solicitor to read your contract and advise before signing you deserve all shafting.

But there's always ways they can shaft you...

 

[hugh]

So anyway, has anybody got any ball park figures and how much it'd cost to put out a 7" single and what needs to be done?

Roughly a grand for manafacturing 500 when you add in VAT/printing/delivery etc etc. Could probably do it cheaper by shopping around.

Edit: I've just remembered I run/ran a record label. I'm going after all those fucking bands we put out records by to recoup some money. You know who you all are!