Queen Kong / Ladyfest Berlin Hassle (1 Viewer)

[Cormcolash]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

Can I be the first to open the can?

Actually I could spend hours writing an essay on this here, but I don't have the time for that, so I'll have to try and quickly summarise what I think, and that's probably more difficult than the much longer answer. I'm sure my basic argument will have been used a million times anyway (and forgive the constant use of the inverted commas!).

Essentially, I don't agree with most of what you're saying, although there are a few points that I'd go with.

To put it bluntly, unsubtly, and not entirely accurately, the main thing I would point at here is the problem behind the idea of organising gigs/events/whatever which are primarily intended to "celebrate women and being female" under the banner of feminism.

The problem I see is that, by organising events to "celebrate women and being female" and you are in fact enforcing the difference between the sexes (especially in relation to whatever events you are organising) rather than combating it. Of course this shouldn't really have to be the case, but in my opinion it is more often than not the result when combined with extreme feminism, particularly in recent years.

Feminism as I see it is about equality, the fact that both sexes should be viewed as equally capable in every way to the point that people shouldn't even have to distinguish between sexes because it doesn't make a difference.

However, the idea of "celebrating women and being female" does not hold with that. By setting gigs/whatever up in this manner, what you are doing in my view in essence is putting women above men in order of importance. You are enforcing the idea of differences between the sexes, and you are practising a reverse form of sexism to that which you are trying to fight. This is the main thing that happened in Berlin which I find quite contemptible, and I think it's pretty disgusting that the majority of people at the gig there chose to uphold this view for the sake of the one person who decided to put it into practice.

You can't fight sexism by practicing another sort of sexism, the fact is you just end up looking as bad as that which you are trying to fight. Just take a look at what happened in Berlin. To most people who have heard the story, the extreme feminist who created such an uproar at the Ladyfest there actually just looks like a total idiot, because she is trying to impose her own sexist ideals on someone else at a festival which is supposed to be about combatting sexism.

Now I'm sure that Magical Girl is not attempting to organise gigs and events on a sexist basis, but trying to get women more involved in music and the arts, but when I see events organised with the purpose of "celebrating women and being female" for me it always comes back to the same problem of reverse sexism which enforces and encourages a difference between the sexes. This just makes me rather cynical about anything organised with this kind of statement in mind. I personally much prefer to see no real issue being made of what sex the members of a band are, because I don't think it should make a difference at all.

I think we're quite blessed in Ireland that we rarely if ever come across the extreme kind of feminism which really brings this issue to the fore. From what I gather, it is actually quite common in Germany and some other countries nearby. I'd like to attribute that to having a well-educated population, but considering what the result was the last time a racist law came up for vote, I can't even do that.

I could get much much deeper into this argument, and how it could just be viewed as a construct of the society we live in, but I don't have time.

The last thing I will ask is this: Why would someone be uncomfortable with a male band member taking off their top whilst playing a gig, but they wouldn't have a problem with a female band member doing the same thing?

Anyway I've rambled on enough now, I find it very difficult to try and explain my views on all this not because they are hard to formulate but actually because there are so many things I want to say that are related to each other that it is very difficult to seize on individual points.
I just want to make clear though that I'm not having a go at Magical Girl or anything, but more at the extreme feminism which I think is becoming a bigger and bigger part of modern feminism (in my opinion anyway!).

 

[oh shit]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

i totally disagree with you there cormac, but i don't have the time to explain why

on another point: if bikini kill had spent half as much time practicing as they did talking crap, they might have been good

 

[cheryl]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

Cormcolash,
I think you’re missing the point of why Magical Girl put on gigs like this one. Their gigs are to celebrate women in music/art. You seem to think it’s to put down men?

I think it is very important to put on gigs under the guise of feminism and I praise Siobhan for doing this. How else do you fight against inequality? Should women hang around waiting for equality to just come their way? Unfortunately things don’t happen to you if you just hang around waiting. It's the same with anything you want to fight against.

Yes, feminism should be, as you say, “about equality, the fact that both sexes should be viewed as equally capable in every way to the point that people shouldn't even have to distinguish between sexes because it doesn't make a difference.” but unfortunately this doesn’t happen in the real world…*insert differences in salary scales, treatment of women in 3rd world countries, women trying to get back into the workplace after raising a family, treatment of female babies in places like China and India* - I could go on and on but you get my point I hope.

If you can, why not go along to the gig and I’m sure you’ll realise the last thing it’s about is putting men down in any way. In fact, alot of the bands have guys in them and if they felt they were being put down, I'm sure they wouldn't agree to play.

 

[shelxy]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

have to disagree with you too cormac!
i think most festivals etc run with women in mind are more about accessibility rather than exclusion- both for the artists and the audience. i think most people who have ever been to a ladyfest or similar event will tell you that they got the chance to see bands/performers that they wouldn't normally get to see or even knew about.. and that there is a different atmosphere to a normal fest. being organised by women for women does make an event quite unique but i don't think it implies any sort of inverted sexism. feminism as i see it is about equality. the music industry, like most other industries doesn't operate a level playing field. women in the music industry, at whatever level, are moving around in a system that has been designed and run by their male forefathers/counterparts, no wonder its intimidating! is it so wrong to occasionally redefine the platforms that exist for women to express themselves? isn't that just leveling out the playing field a little?
anyway thats my 2 cents, back to work!

 

[jenny_redd]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

I experienced Lady Fest Berlin both as a performer in a band and as a member of the audience.
First of all, Lady Fest and Magical Girl gigs are important. They are not reverse sexism but a very much needed space both for audience members and female bands to be able to perform and enjoy music in a safe and supportive space. I have been to so many gigs where I have been injured by men who really seemed to want to cause some damage. The last gig that seemed really dangerous was a Gossip gig which was an extra thump in the stomach. It culminated in a girl having a pint poured over her head because she was 'a f****** lesbian'. So, these places are essential and also to promote bands that are woefully overlooked by a male dominated music scene, not because the music is substandard but because the music is made by women in bands...Simple as that unfortunately.

It is very easy to fall to that age old cliche to call feminists man-haters as it must be scary in a phallocentric society when binaries begin to be removed and the societal norms that have been constructed and reinforced over the centuries begin to shift. Feminism is about equality and not replacing the binaries with more, but about tearing them down. whilst women still have not got equality surely it is even more important for ladyfests and Magical girl gigs to provide that security...Gigs such as these are a very mixed audience where the music provides a platform for important issues to be raised. Believe it or not, not everyone who attends the gigs are feminists...

As for Ladyfest Berlin, I fully supported Queen Kong and thought they were ace and fully applauded their choice [or lack of] attire. It was one woman who objected out of about 100 and the majority supported the band. This form of 'extreme feminism' comes from political issues in Eastern European countries where I cannot even begin to understand how far women's rights have still to come. Even though I did not agree with the woman who objected, women get heckled and shouted at [both on and off the stage] without any support, perhaps without any realisation from friends and family that anything has happened. It will not make me rethink my own feminist beliefs as we need feminism and Ladyfest/magical girl gigs even more in this sexist/homophobic/FHM/Nuts/Zoo society that we are told is the norm.

As for a woman taking off her top, it is a subversive act that reverses the call from metal/rock bands shouting at their female fans to 'show us your tits', check out Corin tucker's t-shirt from Sleater-Kinney that read: show us your riffs...and unless we had forgotten is what this should be about...the music.

 

[queera]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

Have to TOTALLY disagree with the above remarks. I consider myself a feminist and dont care if people label me as 'extreme' or whatever they want for my beliefs. I agree with all the above come-backs in terms of why women need their own spaces, asking men not to be at the forefront is not 'reverse sexism' - its about celebrating womens identity and creativity and creating a safe space for that. Most pro-feminist men agree with this, in theory anyway. I am not sure what you mean by us being 'lucky' not to have 'extreme' feminists in Ireland. I for one wish there were more.
Ill be there Siobhan. With clothes on!

 

[queera]

fuck!

The more I read that guy cormac's(?) post, the freakin more pissed off I get.

 

[jenny_redd]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

I agree! 'extreme feminism'!!!

 

[Cormcolash]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

If what I say pisses people off, they should examine why that is. I'm simply putting my own opinions across.
The arguments people have come back with are pretty much what I expected. The implication that I am calling feminists in general "man-haters" or some such is extremely predictable and something I completely expected. I don't really have the time or inclination to expand upon my opinions in detail, it would just take too long, and for the same reason I won't try and pick apart the ideas of people who disagree.
All I'll say is that:

Cheryl - I think you completely missed the point of what I was trying to say and it looks like you've just reacted to it more than anything. If you read my post you can see that I'm not at all trying to say that Magical Girl is practicing an extreme form of feminism, frankly I wouldn't know if it is or isn't. One of the points of my post though is to show that it could be taken in that context.

I am an advocate of everyone re-assessing their positions from an un-biased perspective, and I think everyone should have a go at that if they can. After all, it could be that we're all wrong.
I had a few other things to say but they've all melded together in my mind now so I won't bother trying, don't want to be sitting here for another half an hour!

 

[Maria]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

I really don't see any logic in the argument that something that promotes one group of people is automatically discriminating against another.

Ladyfest is a really positive event, typical ladyfest rhetoric includes the point that any kind of hate or aggression has no place at their gigs, - that includes man - hate! How some people can see that as intimidating / discriminatory is beyond me.

 

[cheryl]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

If what I say pisses people off, they should examine why that is. I'm simply putting my own opinions across.
The arguments people have come back with are pretty much what I expected. The implication that I am calling feminists in general "man-haters" or some such is extremely predictable and something I completely expected. I don't really have the time or inclination to expand upon my opinions in detail, it would just take too long, and for the same reason I won't try and pick apart the ideas of people who disagree.
All I'll say is that:

Cheryl - I think you completely missed the point of what I was trying to say and it looks like you've just reacted to it more than anything. If you read my post you can see that I'm not at all trying to say that Magical Girl is practicing an extreme form of feminism, frankly I wouldn't know if it is or isn't. One of the points of my post though is to show that it could be taken in that context.

I am an advocate of everyone re-assessing their positions from an un-biased perspective, and I think everyone should have a go at that if they can. After all, it could be that we're all wrong.
I had a few other things to say but they've all melded together in my mind now so I won't bother trying, don't want to be sitting here for another half an hour!

ok, without taking up too much time then, explain what you're saying in a few sentences. what i took from your post is that you don't agree with gigs being put on to celebrate women? correct me if i'm wrong there.
i never said you were accusing MG of practising extreme feminism...

 

[karate_feetus]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

I was also at Ladyfest Berlin 2007, as an organiser, performer and audience member.

Basically what happened was a misunderstanding mixed with stress, anger and upset.

I think women and men are different and treated differently in many ways. I also like the fact that women events exist. Its a network and provides a vital space for women to support and encourage each other and women's creativity because believe it or not, female artists of whatever breed are not priviledged with the support, visibility or otherwise that male artists have.

There was a passionate clash of opinion and value, with a large measure of intolerance and insensitivity on both parts. I was fiercely defending Dave and more to the point was extremely angry that with all the attention Dave was getting, Amy and Ruby's contribution was completely forgotten and dismissed.

I don't feel like there is a space to work these things out, either here or within the Ladyfest group. Everyone is so hooked up on dismissal and opposition. Dave isnt sexist, he isnt macho, and his behaviour and protest was misunderstood. It wasn't made clear before what was expected from male musicans and why. This was the first mistake.

Also, as a performer I feel strongly about respecting a performers position. When you are on stage, you cannot click a switch to jump from performance mode 'on' or 'off'. I of all people can appreciate this.

When Party Weirdo were playing at the Porco Dio benefit for Terence Wheelock, there was an incident where I confronted sexist behaviour and used my power as a performer to fight against that. Unfortunately it turned out the offenders in question were members of the Wheelock group.

Afterwards it was suggested that I should have stopped and thought, I should be carefull, I dont want to offend anyone. Thats not how it goes!

Dave took his shirt off in innocence! Why should he have to put it back on? And why should he do anything but protest if people are heckling him on stage? He didnt do anything wrong! Unfortunately, as with my situation, it wasnt explained to Dave why taking his shirt off might offend some people. In my case it was because we werent introduced to the people involved... not that I still wouldnt have told them to fuck off but the point I think is clear. Had I already been aware of the issues at hand, perhaps things would not have escalated.

Unfortunately I think that now, the issue is not on how to improve and move on, which it should be, but what to dismiss - feminism? Ladyfest? Magical Girl? Men? No, these are good things, I feel we need them, especially the inclusion of men. Isnt my desire for that enough to gain support from my fellow human beings? In this case I dont want to tell anyone they are wrong! No one was an asshole and everyone was an asshole. People just did what they thought was right and that doesnt always work out!

What we need to do now is listen to each other and try and grasp why someone feels the way they feel - why would this person feel so passionate and angry as to pull a gig? No one is trying to understand that - although I remember Dave asking 'what have I missed, Id like to know'.

I want to know too, why people feel how they feel. I wont presume to have the authority to dismiss it! Dave protested becuase he felt that was the right thing to do. Alex pulled the plug because Alex thought that was the right thing to do. Nobody should dismiss someone with genuine intention. We need to empathise! And I think that that is one of the most relevent issues effecting us today. Lack of empathy.

PS. Bikini Kill are inspirations to us all. And if you read a little about their political intent you shall discover that not practising was part of the grand plan. They are one of my favourite bands eva.

 

[killy kill]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

Did DaveQKs Gorgoroth tribute band play? They kick ass

 

[F. Fred Palakon]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

Cormoclash, I can see how women-only spaces or the likes of Magical Girl or Ladyfest could be perceived counter-productive to the cause of gender equality, because, in celebrating women, they can sometimes draw our attention to differences between the sexes. In a wonderful, theoretical post-feminist, third-wave world, I'd agree with you. I wish shit like this really didn't matter and we could all enjoy gigs equally in various states of unsexualised undress and read our Judith Butler fanzines in peace.

But the reality is that despite how much you or I wish there wasn't a need for draw attention to the shit deal women sometimes get anymore, on a big scale (employment, reproductive rights, etc) and on a small scale (feeling a alienated at a local gig cos you've just seen four bands play and they were all guys, again) being female can sometimes mean you don't get a fair break.

I personally much prefer to see no real issue being made of what sex the members of a band are, because I don't think it should make a difference at all.

In an ideal world it shouldn't but in our world it does, and I suppose for me that's really the point.

Whether you agree with Siobhan or me or any of the other posters or even the solo objector at Ladyfest Berlin, the fact that Siobhan's post has caused this discussion is valuable as an end in itself. I really respect the way Queen Kong handled the, eh, incident, and while I disagree with the actions of the lone ranger out there in Berlin, I see her point. It's forced some people (me included) to think about what is and isn't acceptable for them in this crazy mixed up, gender inequal world, and that's important. !cheezy

 

[siobhan]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

I think the women who replied in this thread have hit that rusty nail on the head with alot of their comments.

Dave i feel realises and now understands the thinking behind the woman's reaction at ladyfest berlin - but that doesnt mean it should have happened.

Some women who feel that the sexism/homophobia in the world is too much to bear sometimes seperate themselves away from what they feel threatening and they form their own little sub groups of women only / queer only / punk only/ anarchist only spaces.
It just seems to make the world more bearable if you surround yourslef all the time by like minded people.
Alot of minority groups do this.

I disagree with this approach - even though as a queer woman i completely get why some people choose to live this way.

I think the only way forward can only be to live alongside everyone and just respect and accept everyone as best you can no matter what.

There IS still sexism in existence - even though there have been gestures towards equality and there is more equality- it would be a lie to say that women are the world over completely equal to men.


I turn on phantom every morning driving to work and im lucky if i might hear one female band...(usually the same - the gossip, css or maybe if we're lucky some fight like apes) thats an hour of male music all the way to work - its the same on the way back home and its really fucking annoying as a woman who enjoys listening to alt female music.

Its the same for all the radio stations - but it annoys me most with phantom because it boasts to be alternative - its still the best of a bad lot - but we're still looking at about 90% of radio being male.

the media ignores the millions of female bands that exist. If we were to believe the token gestures of coverage there's about 5 alternative female bands in the world. Check the music magazines and if you find that the majority of magazines are 50% or more female coverage- then im wrong.

This lack of exposure given to female bands hardly encourages younger girls to start bands - its not really considered as an option - so as a result there is a huge imbalance in the number of girls and boys starting bands - so we're left with fewer female bands starting and the ones who do are largely ignored by the media.

What Magical Girl and Ladyfest try to do Cormcolash is provide that visibility for female talent.
Thats all.
Theres no men hating - extreme feminism- ghettoing ourselves.

Magical Girl is ONE NIGHT every couple of months which tries to provide a venue/line up of bands which gives visibility to female talent in music.
And you're calling Magical Girl sexist for providing one female space amongst the 1000's of usually male only gigs in Dublin ??

thats just laughable.
I honestly think if you were female and experienced the world as a female you'd be of a different opinion.
Some men and women hear the word feminist and get very defensive because they feel that all feminists hate men.
all feminists do not hate men.


Feminism/Magical Girl/Ladyfests are about trying to do something to re-address the imbalance and to celebrate what women bring into the world since it tends to usually be so ignored- and thats just wrong.

Magical Girl Gigs so far have thankfully had the best crowds- a complete mixed bag with no hassle and they've been great and thats what gigs/venues/nights out should be..a healthy balance of women, men, queer, straight, punk, whatEV - just happy out enjoying the music.

.|..|.|..|

 

[georgestapleton]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

Hi first post on thumped for a while. (I used to have a different account). Some of you know me, karate feetus, krossie, Cormac (if this is ex copenhagen cormac) and Siobhan (kinda, I've been introduced to you 5 or 6 times but you never remember me). This is Oisín.

Firstly I think the idea of feminism vs. 'extreme' feminism is ridiculous. Feminism is not some afterthought like 'oh women, they're nice, I'm pro-them'. Feminism is the belief that there is an inequality between men and women in our society and action needs to be taken to end that. What your feminism is depends on how you understand what the root of that inequality is and how you think it should be fought.

That leaves it pretty open and I think the term 'feminism' is as useful as 'socialism' or 'the left'. If you leave it unqualified socialism refers to anything from primitivists in oregon to joe stalin to tony blair to the baader-meinhoff gang to hitler (national-socialism). Its a pretty imprecise term.

I for one as a materialist anarcha-feminist communist, , think that I am as far as can be politically from people like that feminist wrote that book saying how great thatcher was, or from andrea dworkin or from all the feminists I've met who call women who were short skirts sluts or from women who tell men to put their tops on.

I also think corm is wrong to say that the woman was being sexist. There is undoubtedly anti-men sexism (primarily in relation to question of child custody) but in this situation it wasn't sexist it was just stupid.

And yes I can understand why the woman did this. But understanding something is different to apologising for it. And no matter how much you understand it it doesn't change the fact that it was a really idiotic thing to do.

its about celebrating womens identity and creativity and creating a safe space for that. Most pro-feminist men agree with this, in theory anyway.

You are call yourself queera so I presume you idetify as queer, as such I'm a bit baffled how you as a queer person can make this post. I thought the whole point of queer theory and the queer identity was to make the point that women's identity, and gender identity more generally, was not set. Rather any gender identity is a 'performance' or is acted, done, produced or reproduced. Gender is an product of repeated social acts not a presocial essence to be oppressed or liberated, therefore it also can't be celebrated. I thought the idea was that fixed concepts of gender needed to be fought, with the more materialist and revolutionary elements of queer theory (for ex. Rosemary Henessy) saying that the material factors causing the delineation of gender binaries also needed to be fought. i.e. the sexual division of labour and the bourgeois family that have defined capitalism need to be gone beyond.

I think it is very important to put on gigs under the guise of feminism and I praise Siobhan for doing this. How else do you fight against inequality? Should women hang around waiting for equality to just come their way? Unfortunately things don’t happen to you if you just hang around waiting. It's the same with anything you want to fight against.

Yeah of course. I think what Siobhan, Magical Girl etc. are doing is deadly. Its great to encourage people who are discouraged from doing stuff because of their age, race, social status etc. to do that stuff. And its really impressive that people are looking for proactive ways to overcome sexist attitudes and structures in their own community and milieu. It's very easy to say 'oh everyone here is grand, sexism is a problem caused by them over there', so yeah go Siobhan, the Ladyfest people and all that jazz.

However [dot dot dot] Cultural action won't solve sexism or make most womens lives significantly better. Sexism and patriarchy is not simply a problem of a people having the wrong ideas or saying the wrong words or speaking or behaving in oppressive ways. It is not simply an ideological problem, it is a material social problem that is based on the most basic defining social relations of contemporary society. Or to use the language of (post-)struturalism (so loved by contemporary femininism) it is not a symbolic problem it is a real problem.

Sexism will only be gotten rid of when the issue of sex ceases to limit your freedom for selfdevelopment. More simply put sexism will not be gotten rid of before having a womb ceases to a social disabling fact.


P.S. Looking forward to Saturday, should be deadly.

 

[georgestapleton]

Re: Queen Kong Berlin Hassle.

Corm you know that feminazi is a term coined by rush limbaugh.

Other things he's said are

• Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.

• We're not sexists, we're chauvinists -- we're male chauvinist pigs, and we're happy to be because we think that's what men were destined to be. We think that's what women want. [15 April 2004]

• Sexual harrasment at this work station will not be reported. However, it will be graded!!!.

Its a really dodgy right wing politically loaded term that marks out the user as a reactionary bigot. If you aren't a reactionary bigot who think the above quotes hit the nail on the head, don't use it.

 

[shitepipe]

Re: Queen Kong Berlin Hassle.

Corm you know that feminazi is a term coined by rush limbaugh.

Other things he's said are

• Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.

• We're not sexists, we're chauvinists -- we're male chauvinist pigs, and we're happy to be because we think that's what men were destined to be. We think that's what women want. [15 April 2004]

• Sexual harrasment at this work station will not be reported. However, it will be graded!!!.

Its a really dodgy right wing politically loaded term that marks out the user as a reactionary bigot. If you aren't a reactionary bigot who think the above quotes hit the nail on the head, don't use it.

feminazi

 

[madame swankee]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

dear magical girl and ladyfest organisers everywhere,
please continue doing what you're doing.

i would have given up on music a long time ago if it wasn't for events like these. as a female musician, the support, encouragement and empowerment that you get from these events is invaluable and STILL believe it or not very much needed for musicians and music lovers everywhere! female and male
reverse sexism, it certainly is not. up visibility.
::clef::!cheezy::clef::

 

[pelviscostello]

Re: Magical Girl Gig Sat 18th Aug - Das Wanderlust+Estel+Sweet Jane

In case anyone is worried about male tits being shown at this feminist gig we have a bra ready for bushie and queen kong are all banned.
and no-one called dave is allowed in.

.|..|.|..|


actually i get why the woman at ladyfest berlin asked dave to put his top on - but i think she was wrong because he's a sweaty bastard (like bushie) and he's always getting his top off.
but the woman at ladyfest berlin was obviously pissed off because so many spaces whether the lads realise it or not are male spaces.
most lads are socialised to be louder, more active, encouraged more to be dominant and in control.
so when it comes to gigs lads nearly always stand at the front and take up alot of space and look next time youre at a gig- women hardly ever push themselves forward to the front because we are brought up to think we shouldnt take up much space.
instead of people getting pissed off with me saying this - think about whether its true first and then imagine being born a female and having to cope with this.
we should push to the front more its true- but sometimes it would just be cool if we didnt have to push for what we'd like and it would just happen.
this is why bikini kill always asked to boys to stand at the back of their gigs and asked the girls to stand at the front.

what women want sometimes is to feel 'for once this space/stage/gig' is celebrating women and being female which is what started the riot grrrl/ladyfest movements 10 years ago.

for an extreme feminist seeing a bloke taking his top off on a stage which is supposed to be 'for once' female at a music festival which is 'for once' celebrating women 100% instead of the 10% usually seen at most music festivals.

seeing all 6ft 2" of dave (and thats just his shoulder width) taking off his shirt would have pissed her off and im thinking she threw him the bra to show that women are always expected to cover up themselves whether they're sweating buckets or not - and if they do take their tops off its either sexualised (since thats how female brests are only to be seen)and it gets so much publicity (beth ditto, bikini kill, the slits, bratmobile)

overall though- i think she was wrong - dave always gets his gear off during a gig- but so does amy.. and queen kong are so out there they dont have any agenda- nevermind a macho one..daves is not a macho macho man..(he's lovely) but the woman at ladyfest berlin didnt know this.

i heard dave on phantom this morning when i was driving to work and was happy to hear him praising ladyfests and what theyre doing and he explained that this women was in the extreme- she was - but i see how her mind was working.


ANYWAYS...
this gig on saturday is going to be very sweaty - with lots of girls and lots of boys enjoying a space which is trying to support women in alternative music.
!baggyyyy.|..|.|..|.|..|.|..|.|..|.|..|

Kathleen Hanna loses credibility in any argument: she married a Beastie Boy and collaborated with Green Day. (Anyone remember the Beastie Boy song "girls"? And no, it wasn't "ironic")

It amazes me how people can take a good idea, like gender equality, and make it sexist.

The "feminists" who unplugged Queen Kong, are about as feminist as George W. Bush is a Christian.

I mean, how fucking stupid is that?

Furthermore "new feminism" (Riot Grrrl, ect.) makes about as much sense as the War on Drugs, or the Catholic Church's view on birth control.

Men and women have genetically hardwired roles in society and no amount of lack of shaving is going to change that.

You can see those behaviors in action on daily basis, it's called procreation.

I believe we (men and women) are, and should be, equal. We are equal and different. This "new feminism" doesn't seek to integrate or equalize but to isolate and segregate. It's just fucking stupid.

I have had many women tell me that this new feminism is pro segregation because they "want something of their own". What, just like white only schools, restaurants and drinking fountains in 1960s Southern U.S. States? What if I started a male only social movement? No women allowed... everyone would collectively shit. I'd be called sexist and rightfully so.

I call supporters of new feminism sexist.

Please come to my "you're magical boy" show at the Boom Boom Room whereas men and women can take off or leave on any item of clothing they want.