Public versus Private Sector (1 Viewer)

[hugh]

is it possible for the private sector to have the same conditions as the public sector?

I don't think that it is.

We can talk about Ryanair and IBEC but the reality is that most businesses are small to medium sized businesses.

they don't set out to exploit people.

The cold reality is if they don't bring in the cash and they can't cut costs anywhere else they have to let people go or cut their pay.

I have met plenty of different compaines over the last year that have had to make very difficult, stressful and depressing decisions on their businesses and the people that work for them.

Sure, it may not be possible to have the same conditions, I don't know. But, surely as a country we should aspire to the best possible working conditions, rather than identifying the worst ones and then systematically trying to drag everyone down to that.

I totally sympathise with business owners trying to struggle through this, and keep their own, and their employee's jobs, alive. The difficulty I have is this - how does cutting public sector wages help their situation? When my wages are cut in a week or so's time (and I have no doubt they will - again) I'll simply have less disposable income to spend, which I might have otherwise spent in their businesses ...

Having said that, I'm not actually completely opposed to pay cuts ...

 

[pete]

Talks have broken down.

Oh well.

 

[broken arm]

The vast bulk of the public service is there to provide a specific service, and isn't really geared towards innovation / creating new markets.

yes and maybe that is where the problem lies.

not a simple example but - recently the NHS copped on that they were spending billions of pounds on taxpayers moeny on training, research and development only for people to migrate to different areas or to the private sector. They were losing billions on Intellectual Property that they had developed with tax payers money. So they then decided to take a strategic view on the IP they generate as a means to develop new business/innovations and gradually reduce specifc revenue streams from the public purse.

It's only a small example but it is a principle that can be applied across the public sector. Find new revenue streams to plug the gap and reduce burden.

Shorthand for the economic model we pursued for the last ten years, i.e. lax regulation allowing banks to offer easy credit for builders to pursue worthless, damaging development. I really think only lip service is paid to the irresponsibility of the whole thing. Isn't NAMA an attempt to "get credit flowing again", i.e. allow the same thing to start up again?

yea - it's the public sector that is driving the system and it's the stagnation of thinking that is allowing the public sector to invest more time and energy in maintaining business as usual.

there is a need to change that.

maybe some strategic functions of the public sector need to be taken away from them. I don't just mean privatisation.... There are exampes where some public services would be delivered better by the Third Sector.

I expect he's referring to the fact the recession in Ireland has been hugely exacerbated by the way our political and banking systems facilitated the housing bubble

the banking sector responded to the conditions created by the public sector.

 

[Pantone247]

what's really going on is that Ireland is fucked in the head and you're all too busy blaming everyone else except for yourselves instead getting on with sorting the country out.

now that you can't blame the english for being fucked up you are turning in on yourselves.

good constructive stuff there... thanks!

 

[aoboa]

Talks have broken down.

Oh well.

Boards is flooded with some of the most horrible sentiments I've ever read:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1196

The Indo wins. I'm officially disgusted.
F**k this country.

 

[aoboa]

the banking sector responded to the conditions created by the public sector.

Explain. This I just don't get.

 

[MDR]

Boards is flooded with some of the most horrible sentiments I've ever read:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1196

The Indo wins. I'm officially disgusted.
F**k this country.

I don't read boards.ie or politics.ie on this stuff and am a happier man for it.

 

[aoboa]

I don't read boards.ie or politics.ie on this stuff and am a happier man for it.

I just scanned through and it drives home how stupid people are.
Guess what guys? - whatever was wished onto others for next week - well IBEC are now gonna demand the same from you.
We are in a race to the bottom with the rest of Western Europe and the labour laws that people think give them some protection without the need for unions are useless to stop it.

 

[MDR]

www.irisheconomy.ie is a more informed site where most of the country's top economists discuss a range of economic issues, including the public sector/private sector issues.

 

[magnetize]

I just scanned through and it drives home how stupid people are.

do you reckon boards/politics are a real representation of the general public? i always hope that theyre more joe duffy than anything.... although this is the same country that cheers bertie on the late late a few weeks back, continually re-elects michael lowry to top the poll and will no doubt do the same for o'donoghue...

 

[aoboa]

do you reckon boards/politics are a real representation of the general public? i always hope that theyre more joe duffy than anything.... although this is the same country that cheers bertie on the late late a few weeks back, continually re-elects michael lowry to top the poll and will no doubt do the same for o'donoghue...

A lot of boards seems to be 25-35 south county dublin judging by the general tone of the place.

 

[broken arm]

Explain. This I just don't get.

The state created the conditions within which the banks (and developers etc) could operate.

Pushing for the setting of conditions that would allow for a property boom while having completely deficient regulatory structures is... poor form.

 

[Lepra]

The state created the conditions within which the banks (and developers etc) could operate.

Pushing for the setting of conditions that would allow for a property boom while having completely deficient regulatory structures is... poor form.

The government in power at the time did that.
Not the state(as such).
Not the public sector(as you put it).

you're wrong.

 

[aoboa]

The state created the conditions within which the banks (and developers etc) could operate.

Pushing for the setting of conditions that would allow for a property boom while having completely deficient regulatory structures is... poor form.

Ah now, it's way more complicated than that.
The first round of the boom was kick started by that section xx relief which was aimed at regenerating run down areas. This was a really good thing even though at the time I would have been against it. The intentions were good but it set the scene for what was to come. This would have been 1992-1996 from my own memory of things and involved people snapping up these apartments to live in and to rent out. The developers copped on to the potential after the success of the first wave of builds like Gardiner St and around Cornmarket and realised there was money to be made.
The second round was 1996-2000 and here everyone wanted in on the action. This was when the greed set in on all sides. Banks were behaving reasonably professionally with the public during this period and probably with developers too cos the money was rolling in. This is when people started snapping up multiple investment properties and things started getting rough.
Around 2000 the average house had passed the stamp duty threshold and the government were getting flack from young families. In 2001 they brought in anti speculative stamp duty and when the property market ground to a halt they were forced to repeal it by a lobby of private sector interests (banks, builders etc) and by the older sections of the voting public who were pissed off their nest eggs had stopped rising in value. This is the first time they were really at fault and yes they did continue to ignore the mess but by this stage there were 100+% mortgages and cash rolling in and the whole thing was completely out of control and not just in Ireland.

It wasn't the government that caused the boom initially, it was greed (or you could call it demand) on the publics side. I remember seeing it happen to people I knew (and I say knew for good reason) around 97/98. Meeting one couple who were raving about the property ladder and how they were just about to buy their second house and how much money they had made on their first. It spread like wildfire.

Like I said it's way more complicated than "it's the governments fault" and the above is my own personal experience and recollection of events.
And don't forget, people were a lot happier with the boom than they are with the bust. Even when it was completely out of control a huge section of the public were still quietly feeling smug about the whole thing. Not so smug anymore.

 

[billygannon]

A long story to be discussed over pints off-air.

I'll leave you with this thought: imagine if your local car garage was run by a person who promised every customer a great deal, spent hardly any time at the office, who changed his mind on a weekly basis, who didn't read any sales reports prepared form him and who didn't know much about the cars stocked in the garage. Imagine if his only measure of success was whether everyone in the area thought he was a great man to do business with and would always look after you if you needed a deal or needed something fixed. How long would that garage be in business?

Sounds like an average Chief Executive if you ask me.

 

[broken arm]

The government in power at the time did that.
Not the state(as such).
Not the public sector(as you put it).

you're wrong.

so, is the public sector seperate from government?

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

what i don't understand is how bad "the unions" are at talking to the media...since the strike i've heard nothing but awkward men on the wrong end of a phone line getting hammered...now i'm hearing "the whole thing was misunderstood by everyone" - good grief.

 

[Lepra]

so, is the public sector seperate from government?

ah c'mere, are you drunk?

simple answer;no. it really doesn't merit more than that

 

[hugh]

what i don't understand is how bad "the unions" are at talking to the media...since the strike i've heard nothing but awkward men on the wrong end of a phone line getting hammered...now i'm hearing "the whole thing was misunderstood by everyone" - good grief.

Totally true .. they are largely a disaster in that regard.

 

[MDR]

Unions represent public servants not the public service. Their remit is terms and conditions of employees and the employment contract they have - they are not and should not be responsible for reforming the public service - that's the role of public service management, who never leave their hidey holes to comment.