Public versus Private Sector (3 Viewers)

[MDR]

Hugh, I wouldn't get too hung up on the link between unpaid leave and reduced services. The govt is already going down the road of not replacing staff, and shrinking staff numbers by 27,000. That's 6.3m fewer days worked in the system, so the concern about reduced services is largely a phantom on my view. If people cared about that, they'd object to the reduction in numbers.

In the civil service there is already a facility for up 18 days off on flexi, which is widely abused as people come in early when they're not needed, clock in during lunch time or stay late with nothing to do, just to build up time. Adding unpaid leave to that was never a runner in my view. The unions were given a mandate to prevent pay cuts. Instead they went in and negotiated a pay cut in return for extra time off that noone had asked for.

For the most part people calling for public service reform know nothing about public services. They think that it will be possible to avoid wider tax increases (for themselves) by reducing the cost of the public service through reforms. In reality the Government's 'reforms' have added layers of bureaucracy to the system (hello risk registers, PMDS, strategy statements, annual output statements) even though public servants pointed out up front that they were a waste of time. Don't even start me on decentralisation.

This debate was never about reforming the public service or equalising public and private sector pay. The Govt wants the money and are more certain of getting it by pay cuts that by tax changes, where the return is uncertain. The whole hoo-ha about public Vs private was just an exercise in preparing the ground for the cut.

 

[egg_]

The Govt wants the money and are more certain of getting it by pay cuts that by tax changes, where the return is uncertain.

The return from pay cuts is uncertain too on account of their deflationary effect. There's an ideological bias against tax hikes, as far as I can see. The claim that highly skilled employees won't live in Ireland if the tax take is higher is clearly preposterous, but there it is being made over and over in the national media. Has everyone taken leave of their fucking senses?

 

[Pantone247]

Has everyone taken leave of their fucking senses?

yes.

 

[Froog]

if i go home to find my bin once again unemptied i will shoot a teacher.

 

[pete]

The survey found that only 9 per cent of companies cut salary rates last year, while 12 per cent implemented unpaid leave as a cost-cutting measure. According to Patrick Robertson, senior consultant with Mercer, salary cuts were the exception rather than the rule during 2009.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/1215/1224260713000.html

 

[hugh]

From the same article ....

SEVENTY PER cent of companies in Ireland reduced payroll by an average of 11 per cent in 2009

More than 100 companies from the multinational and large corporate sector were interviewed for the study

The survey found that most companies used measures other than salary cuts to achieve a reduction in payroll.
These included: hiring freezes; compulsory or voluntary redundancies; reduction in overtime; and reductions in incentive payments.
The gradual phasing out of defined benefit retirement plans – particularly the closing off of the plan to future members – also helped to reduce costs.

However, the study found that approximately one-third of organisations have implemented salary freezes in 2008 and 2009, and more than half plan to freeze salaries in 2010

Separately, a survey by recruitment firm Hays has found that salary levels for advertised new positions fell by up to 30 per cent in 2009.

People already working in the sector (accountancy and finance) were hit by pay cuts as well as the elimination of bonuses, shortened hours, reduced pension contributions and reduced leave entitlements, the survey found.

 

[pete]

I don't think it's unreasonable to compare 'large corporate' with the public sector. There's been a recruitment freeze, plus non-payment of agreed pay rises in the public sector which would have contributed to a reduction in payroll costs here too.

But the point is that the survey just provides further confirmation that 'unpaid leave' is a perfectly valid way to reduce payroll costs (vs. reducing pay) in the private sector, so why the debacle over introducing it in the public sector?

 

[MDR]

Payroll had been cut in the public service by over €2bn before the pay cut between non-payment of agreed increases, staff cuts, early retirement, moratorium etc.

Note that there is no coverage of the private sector pay story in the irish independent.

 

[Pantone247]

I know very few people who haven't taken a pay cut in the private sector,most over this summer, between 5% - 10%. I would imagine it's the norm at this stage

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/1215/1224260713000.html

From the same article ....

 

[magicbastarder]

approximately one third of organisations have implemented pay freezes? i find that hard to swallow.
we had a pay freeze here, and the company is still raking in lots of money.

 

[broken arm]

I know very few people who haven't taken a pay cut in the private sector,most over this summer, between 5% - 10%. I would imagine it's the norm at this stage

2 people close to me have lost their jobs in the last week. both with large financial commitments (mortgages etc). one of the people had 12 years of work in the same place.

another relative has had to cut the workforce (approx 90 staff) in his business by 60%

I'm sure they would have loved a pay cut or unpaid leave etc but life is tough.....

 

[GO]

I will be unemployed as of tomorrow.

Nice.I'd say my chrimbo festivities will involve catching a pigeon for dinner and washing it down with a pint of turps.

 

[broken arm]

I will be unemployed as of tomorrow.

Nice.I'd say my chrimbo festivities will involve catching a pigeon for dinner and washing it down with a pint of turps.

sorry to hear that.

kill a public sector worker and take their job.

 

[pete]

waste of time. no vacancies are being filled.

instant productivity bump!

 

[GO]

instant productivity bump!

If you mean a Thumped productivity bump from me then you're spot on!

I'm not gonna worry about it till my money runs out.Sure its christmas.

 

[GO]

Ah fuck,I'm skint.

 

[egg_]

I know very few people who haven't taken a pay cut in the private sector,most over this summer, between 5% - 10%. I would imagine it's the norm at this stage

I dunno dude, I expect you know an awful lot of people in media/publishing, where there's been very widespread cuts. Might not be the same in other sectors. Not that I can comment, I know hardly anyone (and I've had a private sector pay cut myself), but extrapolating from your own circle doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture

 

[egg_]

I'm sure they would have loved a pay cut or unpaid leave etc but life is tough.....

What's your point dude? That because other people are losing their jobs and getting their pay cut then the public sector should stop whinging and accept it? Because if that was what you were saying then that would really be a non-argument.

 

[Froog]

What's your point dude? That because other people are losing their jobs and getting their pay cut then the public sector should stop whinging and accept it? Because if that was what you were saying then that would really be a non-argument.

seems like a perfectly good argument to me. why should the public sector be treated differently to the private sector? why should goverment jobs be secure for life and not be subject to pay cuts and redundancies?

 

[broken arm]

What's your point dude? That because other people are losing their jobs and getting their pay cut then the public sector should stop whinging and accept it? Because if that was what you were saying then that would really be a non-argument.

no - I'm saying they would have liked a pay cut or unpaid leave but they didn't get the option.

should I get them to give you a call so you can counsel them?