PR people are evil (1 Viewer)

[Jimmy Magee]

Discuss

I'm thinkin there's got to be an argument against using anything that gives one an advantage at other people's expense, without any overall net improvement in things (e.g. better recording equipment doesn't count, because it results in better music for a finish), because everyone ends up having to follow suit, with the result that everyone's putting extra effort in and no-one's actually better off (except the PR folk). Like the Leavin Cert points race or sumthin

Is this argument sound?

 

[Jimmy Magee]

Can one argue that it's fair enough if the stuff gettin a leg up is actually better than the other stuff, and so the net effect is better off because the good stuff survives at the expense of the bad stuff...or can it ever be worth the ensuing rat-race? Or can one argue that the good will (eventually) rise to the top anyway? (Cos PR is so now-centric, in the long term tis a level playin field)

 

[Jimmy Magee]

I'm just havin a debate with meself here, if anyone wishes to join in...

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Can one argue that it's fair enough if the stuff gettin a leg up is actually better than the other stuff, and so the net effect is better off because the good stuff survives at the expense of the bad stuff...or can it ever be worth the ensuing rat-race? Or can one argue that the good will (eventually) rise to the top anyway? (Cos PR is so now-centric, in the long term tis a level playin field)

i guess if you want to get into hot piss some shitty pr agent might be able to help you out. i think it depends on how badly you want to win the rat race... fuck off pr, i say! are you thinking of hiring a pr consultant or something?

 

[avernus]

set up your own pr company, thats the key.

 

[Jimmy Magee]

set up your own pr company, thats the key.

But look at my face! I couldn't sell water in the Sahara.

 

[Jimmy Magee]

are you thinking of hiring a pr consultant or something?

debating on both practical and ethical levels

 

[billygannon]

Why do you want a PR person?

 

[rampz]

i hear max clifford is good.

Discuss

I'm thinkin there's got to be an argument against using anything that gives one an advantage at other people's expense, without any overall net improvement in things (e.g. better recording equipment doesn't count, because it results in better music for a finish), because everyone ends up having to follow suit, with the result that everyone's putting extra effort in and no-one's actually better off (except the PR folk). Like the Leavin Cert points race or sumthin

Is this argument sound?

 

[Ed]

PR people are not evil. They are providing a service for someone who's paying them. The service they provide is mostly there to take the weight of the artist/record label's shoulders. Despite what some people might like to tell you, having a PR person is not going to make your music any more appealing. What makes PR companies so appealing is that they're a dedicated service for the distribution and salemanship of your product. Whet they do have is access to a list of journalists/radio djs etc. that they can send your product. There's nothing to stop you from compiling a list like that yourself, it'll just take a long time to do, to track down the postal addresses of the journalists/djs and get to the post office. That is the primary advantage that you get when going with a pr company, they already have the list and should have a good idea of the most appropriate people to direct your stuff to instead of you just randomly posting things to everyone.
The simple fact is that if your music is any good people are likely to say good things about it. A journalist or a dj is not going to ignore something because it doesn't come from a well known pr company. That said, most journalists would know who tends to send them the most interesting stuff in a broad sense. If Universal send you something you've got a fifty fifty chance it'll be some dodgy r 'n' b or hip-hop. If friction or vital send you something there's a good chance it'll be something interesting because of the labels who hire them.
A lot of it really comes down to who the music is getting sent to at the end of the day. The problem is that a lot of music journalists/radio people get so much stuff in the post that they just don't have time to listen to it all and things may fall through the cracks. It's not unheard of for journalists to have to go to the post office to pick up their stuff because the post office refuse to deliver it all.
At the end of the day coverage mostly comes down to the personal taste of whoever's recieving the music, whether it's from a pr company or fron an individual band. Obviously in some cases the label/company can make a difference but generally it can just come down to luck.

 

[Ed]

Discuss

I'm thinkin there's got to be an argument against using anything that gives one an advantage at other people's expense, without any overall net improvement in things (e.g. better recording equipment doesn't count, because it results in better music for a finish), because everyone ends up having to follow suit, with the result that everyone's putting extra effort in and no-one's actually better off (except the PR folk). Like the Leavin Cert points race or sumthin

Is this argument sound?

Specifically in relation to this:
If you're feeling guilty at the thought of your music getting heard at the expense of soemthing that might be better than your stuff then that's ridiculous. You need to get straight in your head what you want. If you have the money to pay a PR company to get your stuff to the media then use it. If you don't then get your arse in gear and start compiling a list of the media outlets you want to target, and feel would be most appropriate to target. There's tons of amazing music getting ignored all the time. It's nothing to do with the bands, or the pr companies or the media; it just happens.

 

[Buzzo]

WOOOOOOO! Tell it like it is bro!

Edser:
Likes: knowledge, keepin it real.
Dislikes: exams

 

[Divil A Bit]

PR people are not evil. They are providing a service for someone who's paying them. The service they provide is mostly there to take the weight of the artist/record label's shoulders. Despite what some people might like to tell you, having a PR person is not going to make your music any more appealing. What makes PR companies so appealing is that they're a dedicated service for the distribution and salemanship of your product. Whet they do have is access to a list of journalists/radio djs etc. that they can send your product. There's nothing to stop you from compiling a list like that yourself, it'll just take a long time to do, to track down the postal addresses of the journalists/djs and get to the post office. That is the primary advantage that you get when going with a pr company, they already have the list and should have a good idea of the most appropriate people to direct your stuff to instead of you just randomly posting things to everyone.
The simple fact is that if your music is any good people are likely to say good things about it. A journalist or a dj is not going to ignore something because it doesn't come from a well known pr company. That said, most journalists would know who tends to send them the most interesting stuff in a broad sense. If Universal send you something you've got a fifty fifty chance it'll be some dodgy r 'n' b or hip-hop. If friction or vital send you something there's a good chance it'll be something interesting because of the labels who hire them.
A lot of it really comes down to who the music is getting sent to at the end of the day. The problem is that a lot of music journalists/radio people get so much stuff in the post that they just don't have time to listen to it all and things may fall through the cracks. It's not unheard of for journalists to have to go to the post office to pick up their stuff because the post office refuse to deliver it all.
At the end of the day coverage mostly comes down to the personal taste of whoever's recieving the music, whether it's from a pr company or fron an individual band. Obviously in some cases the label/company can make a difference but generally it can just come down to luck.

This is THE most dodgy shit I've seen on Thumped. Get this:

1. As a musician, we do not make music to satiate some need to be accepted by 'journalists' or 'producers'. Therefore, we do not really care what you think, and mutually, you do not care about what our real needs are ...ie. why we are making music. All you think or write about is the element of commercial success in what we do and this reflected in your coverage.

If we get a top notch review in the UK....it is followed up upon by you. If not....have a guess.

2. I've heard this before and I thought this was gone with post-U2.

3. John Peel.

4. If musicians begin to believe in themselves then WHO is anyone to disagree with them? We can be successful without selling a lot of records/ CD's. Do you understand this concept?

5. The Dublin music scene has got tedious because of the interjection of PR co's. We don't believe the hype anymore and this will show very soon.


In other words..........FUCK OFF...if we fail, let it be on our own terms.

 

[Ed]

This is THE most dodgy shit I've seen on Thumped. Get this:

1. As a musician, we do not make music to satiate some need to be accepted by 'journalists' or 'producers'. Therefore, we do not really care what you think, and mutually, you do not care about what our real needs are ...ie. why we are making music. All you think or write about is the element of commercial success in what we do and this reflected in your coverage.

If we get a top notch review in the UK....it is followed up upon by you. If not....have a guess.

2. I've heard this before and I thought this was gone with post-U2.

3. John Peel.

4. If musicians begin to believe in themselves then WHO is anyone to disagree with them? We can be successful without selling a lot of records/ CD's. Do you understand this concept?

5. The Dublin music scene has got tedious because of the interjection of PR co's. We don't believe the hype anymore and this will show very soon.


In other words..........FUCK OFF...if we fail, let it be on our own terms.

OK, Jimmy asked a question and i gave an answer. I think i answered his question pretty well.

In relation to your points:

1. At no point did i suggest that he or anyone else makes music for any specific reason, nor would i presume to do so. If a musician is making music to make a journalist happy then they're a tool plain and simple.
"All you think or write about is the element of commercial success in what we do and this reflected in your coverage." - It's unfair to paint all music journalists/media folks with the same brush. All journalists have different motivations in what they do, just like all musicians. Some are in it for the money/fame, some just like writing.

2. ......

3. John Peel is a prime example of the differing approaches outlined above: He played the music he played because he liked it, plain and simple. He was getting music from individual bands and from pr companies and made no distinctions. In an ideal world all people working within the media would have the same attitude. This isn't an ideal world.

4. Listen, the only thing i've ever given a shit about is the music, and to suggest otherwise is about the biggest insult anyone can throw at me. And unless you know me personally making assumptions about my personality from what i write on the internet makes you a waste of space. And if you do know me personally at least have the balls to put your name on what you write.

5. PR companies have little or no bearing on the Dublin music scene, or any music scene for that matter. If you think it's tedious then you're just not looking hard enough. There's tons of boring shit out there. That's not a new thing, it's always been like that.

 

[avernus]

Tell him Ed!

 

[azezelo]

This is THE most dodgy shit I've seen on Thumped. Get this:

blah blah blah

In other words..........FUCK OFF...if we fail, let it be on our own terms.

Divil A Bit,
I think this post has very little to do with Ed's response to the original question. Maybe it triggered something negative from your own experience, and if so, fair enough. At that level, I can sympathise with your anger about aspects of the music 'industry'.
But I think what Ed wrote was a fairly succint account of the service you will get if you engage the services of a PR company, which was the original poster's dilemma. He did not talk about 'success' or 'approval', and frankly your reaction seems to me a little over-stated. He gave a straight up, practical answer to a fairly muddled question and did not deserve that kind of invective.

 

[Divil A Bit]

OK, Jimmy asked a question and i gave an answer. I think i answered his question pretty well.

In relation to your points:

1. At no point did i suggest that he or anyone else makes music for any specific reason, nor would i presume to do so. If a musician is making music to make a journalist happy then they're a tool plain and simple.
"All you think or write about is the element of commercial success in what we do and this reflected in your coverage." - It's unfair to paint all music journalists/media folks with the same brush. All journalists have different motivations in what they do, just like all musicians. Some are in it for the money/fame, some just like writing.

2. ......

3. John Peel is a prime example of the differing approaches outlined above: He played the music he played because he liked it, plain and simple. He was getting music from individual bands and from pr companies and made no distinctions. In an ideal world all people working within the media would have the same attitude. This isn't an ideal world.

4. Listen, the only thing i've ever given a shit about is the music, and to suggest otherwise is about the biggest insult anyone can throw at me. And unless you know me personally making assumptions about my personality from what i write on the internet makes you a waste of space. And if you do know me personally at least have the balls to put your name on what you write.

5. PR companies have little or no bearing on the Dublin music scene, or any music scene for that matter. If you think it's tedious then you're just not looking hard enough. There's tons of boring shit out there. That's not a new thing, it's always been like that.

Hey...I certain;ly don't know you and am not making a personal comment. I feel that the thread was surely making the point that if we keep vying for the same space by using PR against each other, then we are ultimately getting nowhere. My post was waaaay too harsh now I read it and apologies and I hope you accept. It's just I want us all to have a level playing pitch and I know the realities about PR.

I remember a time not so long ago in Dublin when 'indie' meant indie.

Apologies again.

 

[Kid Lovebeach]

just wrote a big lng post abiut my feelings on pr companies but im drunk and after reading it back i thought i sounded like a moany shitblurp so i erased it in short:

pr companies can get yuou more airplay and make people write nice thingds about you

but

playing as many gigs as possible.making friends and gettiing yr music to anyone who will listen will most likely reap more rewards while being infinately cheaper.
good pr thread here:

http://www.thumped.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=19979&highlight=maladies

jimmy i done just pm'd you there.

 

[chickenham]

In an infinite universe everyone who might be interested in your music will eventually hear it. unfortunately it will take an infinite amount of time.
If you want lots of people to hear it inside of a human lifetime you may need to get some PR.

 

[oh shit]

i'd like to add that PR companies are often cringy annoying bastards and if you want to be really "successful" you're going to need to 'have something' about you (accessibility? marketability? a drug habit?) so you can break into radio, print and tv rotation all around the same time; otherwise the best you can hope for is that you get played once or twice and then dropped from the playlist.

in summary, PR is essential to becoming a cringy indie darling, but must be combined with a whole load of other bullshit to be worthwhile.