new fingerprint database (1 Viewer)

[nofunchee]

maybe people already know about this. there were provisions in the immigration act for it. might have a closer look at it now to see what else can be expected.

does anyone reckon that speedier permit updates, cross-eu crime detection, and increasing ireland's capacity to refuse asylum applications are valid reasons to go for this level of dodgy state control?

currently 71% of however many irish times online readers have bothered to vote say that this is all fine. the intent, necessity, and implementation all stink of a big pile of hairy bollocks to me.

€7m Garda database to store fingerprints

All foreign nationals from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) coming to live in the Republic will from next year have their fingerprints taken and stored on a Garda database along with criminals and asylum seekers, it has emerged. Conor Lally , Crime Correspondent, reports.

Minister for Justice Brian Lenihan has said he expects the new system to be in place in the first half of next year. Any person from outside the EEA - which includes the EU, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland - who plans to stay in Ireland for longer than three months, is already required to register with the Garda National Immigration Bureau.

Currently there are about 150,000 foreign nationals from outside the EEA residing in Ireland. All are issued with an identification card on registering.
However, under new provisions in the Immigration Bill, all of those who register will have their fingerprints taken. Their prints will be stored on their identification card and also on a new fingerprint database.
The database will also include the prints of criminals, those taken from crime scenes and those of asylum seekers.

The system will be linked to the Garda's Pulse computer database.
The new €7 million prints database was officially launched yesterday at Garda Headquarters, Phoenix Park, Dublin, by Mr Lenihan and Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy. It replaces a more primitive system that has been in use for the past ten years Mr Lenihan said the recording of prints of those from outside the EEA would allow for their permits to stay to be more quickly reissued on expiry.He said prints being included on identification cards would help prevent the cards being illegally copied.
"I am also committed to ensuring the State meets its responsibilities in the wider context of EU co-operation, both in the fight against crime and the co-ordination of member states' efforts in respect of immigration and asylum," he said.

The new database is linked to similar systems across the EU. It will enable gardaí to cross check unidentified prints found at a crime scene with print databases across Europe.It will also enable gardaí to check if an asylum applicant has applied for asylum in any other EU country under another identity.

Since the new automated fingerprint identification system became operational last month, some 30 new arrivals have been found to have claimed asylum under another name elsewhere.
There have also been 350 positive identifications of prints from crime scenes, around twice the amount usually identified over the same period under the old system.

The new system is much more advanced than the decommissioned one. It allows for the analysis and cross checking of much smaller print samples.
Reliable Garda sources said the new technology would allow for the identification of foreign nationals landing at ports and airports to be instantly checked before they were granted access to the State.
It is envisaged "livescan" technology will be installed at a number of sites including ports, airports and the Office of the Refugee Appeals Commissioner.Such technology will mean a person's prints can be checked at any location in the State where the livescan technology has been installed.
© 2007 The Irish Times

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/1124/1195682252163.html

 

[Squiggle]

Given that their last big database roll-out didn't even provide the system that could accurately keep track of criminals on a national basis that it promised this seems overly ambitious (not to mention a further waste of money).

 

[jane]

I got in trouble once because I didn't come in to queue for 13 hours mid-year in order to change my address, which I only found out while the person was shouting at me about how I'd broken the law and committed a really serious offence because the government needed to keep a close eye on us foreigns. When I asked why it was so important, he said, "The police need all of your information up to date in case you are a criminal." I asked if Irish people get in trouble for not telling the police they've moved, and that didn't go over well.

There's no good reason to take people's fingerprints unless they choose to give them, and collecting information from certain groups within society and not others definitely makes that group feel like they're under suspicion. And how can people integrate when they're made to feel like they're under surveillance? Collecting data like this, in an uneven way, where immigrants start off at a trust deficit in the eyes of the state, it's never benign.

It's fucked up. The whole fingerprinting thing is one of the billion reasons we're not getting hitched in the US. More of our guests are here, obviously, but also, I don't feel comfortable asking people to be fingerprinted by the authorities for the sake of my wedding. It's not cool, and it's certainly not an example Ireland should want to follow.

What's worse is the number of people who seem to think it's no big deal. On it's own it's probably no big deal, but these tiny incremental steps add up to a big deal, only the whole point of these incremental steps is that we don't see the big picture while we're acquiescing to these little steps.

I've always been a bit afraid of that little chip thingy on my registration card, like pretty soon they're going to start storing information on it that people beyond the GNIB office will be able to access. Wonder when we're gonna have a chip and pin system just for foreigns going out in public?

Not to mention what Squiggle pointed out: that they can't even keep track of the information they have, so how are they going to keep track of this stuff. and if it doesn't get completely lost, how can they ensure it isn't misused?

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

What's worse is the number of people who seem to think it's no big deal. On it's own it's probably no big deal, but these tiny incremental steps add up to a big deal, only the whole point of these incremental steps is that we don't see the big picture while we're acquiescing to these little steps.

I've always been a bit afraid of that little chip thingy on my registration card, like pretty soon they're going to start storing information on it that people beyond the GNIB office will be able to access. Wonder when we're gonna have a chip and pin system just for foreigns going out in public?

Not to mention what Squiggle pointed out: that they can't even keep track of the information they have, so how are they going to keep track of this stuff. and if it doesn't get completely lost, how can they ensure it isn't misused?

i was just reading over the weekend that japan is also introducing a scheme to fingerprint every visitor to japan in order to reduce crime... i reckon its all part of a steady progresison towards keeping track on everyone, starting with the foreigners, but moving on to the rest of us shortly after. i'd say we'll all be chipped before too long because it'll be handy to use in place of a credit card, lock opener etc and it'll save us having to remember pin numbers and keys and stuff and everyone will be delighted with it and have their kids chipped at birth

 

[jane]

i was just reading over the weekend that japan is also introducing a scheme to fingerprint every visitor to japan in order to reduce crime... i reckon its all part of a steady progresison towards keeping track on everyone, starting with the foreigners, but moving on to the rest of us shortly after. i'd say we'll all be chipped before too long because it'll be handy to use in place of a credit card, lock opener etc and it'll save us having to remember pin numbers and keys and stuff and everyone will be delighted with it and have their kids chipped at birth

Exactly. Populations of each country start out being generally fine with keeping tabs on foreigners. It makes them feel more in control of things, so that when the time comes for them to be chipped, they can have stats pointed out to them, and bullshit connections can be made, like, "Chipping foreigns reduced the crime rate! Look how much lower the foreign crime rate is than for natives!" when actually it's probably that you're getting fewer crimes committed per capita among foreigners *anyway*.

It's totally fucked.

Where do dystopian writers go now? What next?

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Where do dystopian writers go now?

mind prison

 

[egg_]

Y'know, in a way we're lucky we've such an incompetent government

 

[Mormon Nailer]

I must say I really don't have a problem with fingerprinting foreigners as they come into the country. I'd be up in arms if they suggested it for citizens but I think thats a separate matter. It's just common sense to have a way to identify people who come into the country.

 

[Space]

Kinda on a related note:

In the states they've brought in a law that requires all new mobile phones to have gps location tracking on them. Predominantly for locating 911 calls they say.


Nailer,

"When they came for the... etc etc etc"

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Nailer,

"When they came for the... etc etc etc"

I just see it as a matter a good national housekeeping to be able to accurately identify people you let into the country.

I'm pretty sure I'd want to know
Is this person who he/she say they are.
Have they been here before.
Did they behave.
Are they wanted somewhere else.

Fingerprinting at point of entry seems to be an obvious way of doing that.

I'd also see it as different issue from fingerprinting nationals.

I spend a good bit of time in the US - Homeland security take fingerprints, and while I'm not fond of the idea I recognise that it's my choice not to travel if I don't want to. I'm a guest there and like any guest if they want me to take my shoes off to then take them off or go home.

 

[Space]

I just see it as a matter a good national housekeeping to be able to accurately identify people you let into the country.

I'm pretty sure I'd want to know
Is this person who he/she say they are.
Have they been here before.
Did they behave.
Are they wanted somewhere else.

Fingerprinting at point of entry seems to be an obvious way of doing that.

I'd also see it as different issue from fingerprinting nationals.

I spend a good bit of time in the US - Homeland security take fingerprints, and while I'm not fond of the idea I recognise that it's my choice not to travel if I don't want to. I'm a guest there and like any guest if they want me to take my shoes off to then take them off or go home.

You're a guest because some other europeans got there before you?

I do see your point although I disagree completely with it.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

You're a guest because some other europeans got there before you?

I guess so.

I often got the impression that people who are very opposed to this sort of thing are opposed to the whole notion if countries and boarders in general - is that your thinking on the matter? Would you see it as OK for people to be allowed in and out of any country they like whenever they like without restriction?

 

[Space]

I guess so.

I often got the impression that people who are very opposed to this sort of thing are opposed to the whole notion if countries and boarders in general - is that your thinking on the matter? Would you see it as OK for people to be allowed in and out of any country they like whenever they like without restriction?

Pretty much yeah. The wealth people are trying to protect in most of these cases is only gained by exploiting the very same countries that these people will be coming from.

But it will lead to everybody being fingerprinted there can't really be any doubt about that whatever way you want to package it. Hence the "first they came for" qoute that I can't remember exactly.

 

[Janer]

The more I read your sig Moosicles the more I am glad I'm me....genius(me)

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

But it will lead to everybody being fingerprinted there can't really be any doubt about that whatever way you want to package it. Hence the "first they came for" qoute that I can't remember exactly.

its the idea of total surveillance that i'm not mad about, nearly everything is monitored and recorded and whatever isnt soon will be. mightnt make a huge difference right now but we've our lives ahead of us yet...

 

[Janer]

25 years ago Shaney when I 1st got into anarcho Punk I woulda being horrified about the future the way it is now but now it doesn't seem so shocking....it's def gonna be 24 hour surveillance in a few years time and more...