Let's have a debate about immigration (1 Viewer)

[Unicron]

Whatever is done, don't do what they've fucking done in my country. The Irish government got a bit of respite from my rage this morning when I saw this fucking bullshit from my government:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21019797/from/ET/

Shameful. Seriously, most Americans can't answer these questions, which means "It's one law for us, and much tougher rules for the rest of 'em." Immigration systems should stop being so goddamn narcissistic. you can be effective, strong, and resolute without the sort of 'love it or leave it' arrogance you get in ignorant Americans who conveniently forget that 95% of Americans are 'immigrants'.

I got 22 of those right, 2 of the wrong ones I got were guesses and I did genuinely think that congressmen served 4 year terms (though if I'd thought about I'd have realised the thing with the mid term elections).

 

[ITalkShite]

Here Popeye, you did a whole post there with nothing in it about the music industry and downloading; what gives?

 

[therealjohnny]

But is Donegal really part of Ireland?

Hmm with the ever deteriorating infrastructure, above average unemployment and overall lack of investment of any sort you could mistake it for one of the poorer eastern EU succession states


Little bit of politics there

oh yeah , and all the Poles

taking the jobs

 

[jane]

I got 22 of those right, 2 of the wrong ones I got were guesses and I did genuinely think that congressmen served 4 year terms (though if I'd thought about I'd have realised the thing with the mid term elections).

Yeah, but because senators serve longer terms, it's a reasonable assumption that the mid-terms are also because of that.

I got two wrong as well! And I'm pretty sure that we did better than most Americans living in the US would do. Crazy shite. Fucking hell.

It's crazy that they make people do it in English as well because the US does not actually have a national language. It's one of the few cool policies, although I'm sure that will change some day soon. I think maybe some states have already started to try to change that at state level.

 

[egg_]

culture isn't something you can acculturate, as you put it

I didn't mean immigrants need to assimilate our culture - I don't really care about culture at all. What I meant was, well, stuff like it's ok to not pay your bin charges but if you don't cut your grass your neighbours will be upset. What promises you have to keep and what ones you don't (and what ones you've to be quiet about if you break). The nitty-gritty about what's ok and not ok in real-life Ireland. The little details that make civilisation possible

 

[egg_]

social contract is a term that will always relate value to financial worth ...

Are you sure?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

 

[RSJ]

Like that you can get off with a mate's ex but not his sister?

 

[Pantone247]

are your black neighbours not cutting their grass Egg_?

is this where all this is coming from?

 

[jane]

are your black neighbours not cutting their grass Egg_?

is this where all this is coming from?

Maybe they ratted him out for not paying his bin charges.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

a family of black people moved into the estate my parents live on a few years ago and within no time word went around that they were going out in to the back yard and dancing and singing every full moon.

 

[Space]

Hmm with the ever deteriorating infrastructure, above average unemployment and overall lack of investment of any sort you could mistake it for one of the poorer eastern EU succession states


Little bit of politics there

oh yeah , and all the Poles

taking the jobs

It's also full of brits and we're not talking about west brits here.

 

[therealjohnny]

So, we're all agreed. So long as they are pretty pixie like nazis they can live alongside our Leprofascict indigenous little people?

 

[therealjohnny]

It's also full of brits and we're not talking about west brits here.

We really should organise some sort of wall building in Lifford.

 

[pete]

a family of black people moved into the estate my parents live on a few years ago and within no time word went around that they were going out in to the back yard and dancing and singing every full moon.

your parents were going out in to the back yard and dancing and singing every full moon?

 

[pete]

Hmm with the ever deteriorating infrastructure, above average unemployment and overall lack of investment of any sort you could mistake it for one of the poorer eastern EU succession states


Little bit of politics there

oh yeah , and all the Poles

taking the jobs

little bit controversial... *winks; nods to side of stage*

 

[jane]

I didn't mean immigrants need to assimilate our culture - I don't really care about culture at all. What I meant was, well, stuff like it's ok to not pay your bin charges but if you don't cut your grass your neighbours will be upset. What promises you have to keep and what ones you don't (and what ones you've to be quiet about if you break). The nitty-gritty about what's ok and not ok in real-life Ireland. The little details that make civilisation possible

Yes and no, I think.

I mean, it's important for people to speak to each other enough for these unspoken ground rules to be transmitted, but these ground rules change, and are constantly being renegotiated, whether consciously or unconsciously, so the inclusion of newcomers means allowing them to be included in those renegotiations. But I see what you're getting at: outsiders can't become insiders unless they can be part of the process, and that means being invited into that process very deliberately and openly.

If they want to. If they don't give a shite, then they don't give a shite. And there's that danger of 'you're in Ireland now' patronising ick that no foreigner likes to listen to. Unfortunately, the 'rules' seem to be transmitted by people trying to justify unacceptable behaviour. Like the guy who tried to kick me in the face in the swimming pool (so deliberately that the lifeguard came over to check things out) and then tried to jump on top of me and reminded me that I'm in Ireland now and he's allowed to kick me in the face if he wants to, and where do I get off having an opinion in his coutnry. The lifeguard was foreign, too, so we were both a bit pissed off. I thought she was gonna knock the head off him when he started on the 'you're in Ireland now' bullshit.

I don't even know what I'm getting at now. I guess it's that explaining cultural norms is cool, but people shouldn't have to adhere to cultural norms that don't have to do with basic safety and laws and stuff. If I don't want to sit down and shut up like a good girl, I'm not gonna.

 

[Squiggle]

I didn't mean immigrants need to assimilate our culture - I don't really care about culture at all. What I meant was, well, stuff like it's ok to not pay your bin charges but if you don't cut your grass your neighbours will be upset. What promises you have to keep and what ones you don't (and what ones you've to be quiet about if you break). The nitty-gritty about what's ok and not ok in real-life Ireland. The little details that make civilisation possible

I see what you are saying, but that applies to Irish nationals too. Any farmer who has had city folk move in nearby will tell tales of stolen trees, gates left open so that his cattle or sheep, a valuable resource to him, are slaughtered on the roads by reckless drivers (at his expense), crops trampled through, or stolen, patches of land 'appropriated' without permission and trespassing to the point of invasion of privacy. We have had people wandering around our farm, outbuildings, house and garden with no apparent realisation that they were doing anything wrong, if we went down to their home and did that they would call the cops.

Edit: Ultimately people everywhere just need to learn to be good to each other! Excellent to each other even.

 

[pete]

all the poles and blacks are driving the number of regular massgoers upwards AND I DON'T LIKE IT

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

your parents were going out in to the back yard and dancing and singing every full moon?

i'd like to think its true

 

[Pantone247]

"Get your hands off me! I'm Irish! It's not in my culture to pay my bin taxes!"