Fairytale of Kathmandu (1 Viewer)

[Corey]

is on RTE 1 at 10.15.

I bet he's actually really reallly sound. Tune in and see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Gambra]

Fuck! Can someone tape and then upload to youtube or something?

 

[Corey]

Hmmnm.

 

[La La]

Hmmnm.

all the way through it was 'i feel sorry for him' and mixed emotions. but that last five minutes kinda summed up how i figured i would feel after watching it. i do feel sorry for him, he is clearly lonely - and he takes advantage of poor teens. and the faces on those boys made my heart sink.


but still, hhmmmm. gonna have to think this one out a bit longer.

 

[maims bond]

all the way through it was 'i feel sorry for him' and mixed emotions. but that last five minutes kinda summed up how i figured i would feel after watching it. i do feel sorry for him, he is clearly lonely - and he takes advantage of poor teens. and the faces on those boys made my heart sink.


but still, hhmmmm. gonna have to think this one out a bit longer.

sorry, but what in the fuck is there to think about?
substitute poet for wealthy businessman and young males for young females, would you feel the same about him? Is there a difference? The guy is abusing his power to an extraordinary degree.

 

[La La]

sorry, but what in the fuck is there to think about?
substitute poet for wealthy businessman and young males for young females, would you feel the same about him? Is there a difference? The guy is abusing his power to an extraordinary degree.

ok first of all, calm down.

trust me, i find nothing worth exonerating here. i simply was implying i have to let what i just saw sink in a bit. ok??!!

i feel the doc was a bit out of balance as well - a large part of it was suggestion (none of which im denying) but i think the most important, integral part of it, the part at the crux of this entire debate, was left ot the last five minutes. i know she didnt initially set out with this in mind, it was about him and the work he does in nepal. but i feel the most disturbing part was kind of thrown in at the end. would have liked to see more of her confrontation with him as well.

when i said i have more to think about i was referring to the actual documentary itself, the way in which she approached and presented the subject matter, not his blatant disregard for the youths he took to bed with him.

 

[maims bond]

ok first of all, calm down.

trust me, i find nothing worth exonerating here. i simply was implying i have to let what i just saw sink in a bit. ok??!!

i feel the doc was a bit out of balance as well - a large part of it was suggestion (none of which im denying) but i think the most important, integral part of it, the part at the crux of this entire debate, was left ot the last five minutes. i know she didnt initially set out with this in mind, it was about him and the work he does in nepal. but i feel the most disturbing part was kind of thrown in at the end. would have liked to see more of her confrontation with him as well.

when i said i have more to think about i was referring to the actual documentary itself, the way in which she approached and presented the subject matter, not his blatant disregard for the youths he took to bed with him.

crossed wires, just that you were saying you felt sorry for him etc I thought you were defending him. Quite honestly, i'm astonished at the amount of people who came out defending him (and lynching the filmmaker) when it was common sense what he was getting up to and he himself didn't deny it.

 

[avernus]

crossed wires, just that you were saying you felt sorry for him etc I thought you were defending him. Quite honestly, i'm astonished at the amount of people who came out defending him (and lynching the filmmaker) when it was common sense what he was getting up to and he himself didn't deny it.

yeah I know. it's incredible. a woman on the view said that as soon as it became clear what he was doing that Neasa should have ceased making the documentary. and because she began making a doc about one thing and that it became something else was her being disingenuous and exploiting Cathal. it reminds me of Mrs. Farmer in Donnie Darko. it's incredible. I imagine that woman had a very different opinion on the happenstance involved in the making of The Revolution Will Not Be Televised!

though nothing he's doing is technically illegal, it's certainly a huge exploitation of young naive boys with little or no understanding of sex. I mean this dude is pretty much 50! the closing 5 minutes really gave me the sense that he is somewhat aware of the scenario he has orchestrated although unwilling to admit any wrongdoing. a very small part of me felt sorry for him too, but ultimately I think what he's doing and done is fucked up and upsetting. what's more is, I think there's more to this story. anyway. I thought it was an excellent doc.

 

[Space]

Did they mention the fact that he's written to a few of the boys in question asking them to help him out?

 

[jane]

What La La and Avernus said.

I thought the turning point, where she realised she hadn't spoken to any of the Nepalese properly, was really interesting. Too often in representations of poor countries, the 'natives' are just used to illustrate a nice, white, Western point. And her way of handling it was so candid: instead of trying to cover her tracks and stick in a load of interviews after the fact, she was open and transparent about her own process.

 

[cephalopod]

There was a scene where he was buying milkshakes for some of his 50 or 60 'friends' and the look on one of the boys faces said it all. He is a sex-tourist. He has a fucking harem of young naive Nepalese men, all of whom he is showering with gifts and money! Dozens of them. He is abusing his wealth and status out there. As soon as he bought the first 'gift' for a boy and later had sex with same boy, he crossed the exploitation line.

He is a disgrace. And what's with his fucking 'guru of the mountains' t-shirts and hats that he has some of the young lads wearing?

 

[jane]

Did anyone hear Eoghan Harris and Quentin Fottrell on Morning Ireland?

Eoghan Harris sounded like he was calling from 1980, talking about how it shouldn't have been broadcast without accompanying panel discussions with psychologists and other experts, who would tell us how to think. He seems to think that whenever the population of the island does not behave as a morality-policing, homogenous unit, there's somehow a failure.

He had a point about the exploitation of the developing world, but it was lost in his attempt to use it to negate what was done. And there was a whiff of Archbishop McQuaid off him.

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I think the discomfort of watching, for most people, has more to do with exploiting the poor and vulnerable than it does with gayness. Like, it's Harris who is clouding the issue with accusations of indecency on the part of RTE. I think it was really wise of them to broadcast something so potentially challenging.

HOWEVER, I think there would be more of an 'aw, sher, that's how things are there' if it were young women. Not because it's less acceptable to be gay, but because there are still a lot of people out there who comfort themselves with the idea of the Pretty Woman reform-the-hooker fantasy, which in our heteronormative world, is only possible when it involves a man and a woman. I don't know if I'm making sense: like, I think people are having the reaction they should have to sex tourism wherever it is and whomever it involves. I think if a similar doc was made about young girls, most people who saw it would still be disgusted by the behaviour of the men, but I think there would be a more populous group who would think it was an overreaction.

 

[cephalopod]

Believe me if he had been in Cambodia and it were girls there would be no ambiguity in how people responded, it would have been ferocious. It's the fact that he's gay that's causing some people's reticence in voicing their disproval if anything.

 

[jane]

Believe me if he had been in Cambodia and it were girls there would be no ambiguity in how people responded, it would have been ferocious. It's the fact that he's gay that's causing some people's reticence in voicing their disproval if anything.

See, I don't know if I agree. I think there would be a similar proportion of outrage, but it would be along different lines. I think there would still be a 'pretty woman' fantasy clouding some people's assessment of the situation.

But at the same time, it's hard to say because this situation is so specific. A documentary maker gets a chance to film the journey of a nationally-admired poet and it turns out that it's a very different kind of journey. There isn't really a way to find a comparable situation. It's down to Neasa continuing to film, the salaciousness of the 'gay sex' story that people watched it at all, and the fact that his work is on the exam taken by boys and girls of the same age as he's exploiting.

There are so many Irish sex tourists, but I hesitate to make a comparison because this is a different situation. There was, though, that situation a few weeks ago, the French doc team who filmed Irish guys whooping it up in Riga, buying a prossie with every pint, and there was a lot of "Ah, sher, it's only a stag night." But that situation is different because the women are already prostitutes (not that it's not still exploitation, just that they were not unaware of sex) and also not comparable because the 'reaction' I'm talking about was a voxpop done by Newstalk, not an actual debate. But there is an article out this month covering sex tourism in Thailand, and it's barely a blip on the media radar. Don't even mention the Glenn/Marketa thing. Like, why aren't people also wondering how it is that a woman who just turned 19 has been dating a guy old enough to be her da for a few years now?

Anyway, that's a totally different situation, too, because she's not a poor Nepalese girl. There's no real comparison, and the ones I just made up there are crap.

And I also don't want to drag this away into hypothetical stuff about boys v girls. Sorry I brought it up! I think there's enough discussion to be had about the documentary's own issues. For one, it does kind of make us ask if there's a whole lot more that we should be outraged by. Like, once someone is exposed as being morally decrepit, do we devalue their art?

 

[Froog]

oh come on, stop the double standards discussion bullshit. the fact is he abused his position of power and exploited those kids desparate for money. i don't really care whether the documentary maker was underhanded or lost integrity. i'm glad it got shown. girls, boys, does it really matter?

 

[JohnnyRaz]

There was a scene where he was buying milkshakes for some of his 50 or 60 'friends' and the look on one of the boys faces said it all. He is a sex-tourist. He has a fucking harem of young naive Nepalese men, all of whom he is showering with gifts and money! Dozens of them. He is abusing his wealth and status out there. ?

the scene where they were acting as his 'native bearers' carrying his shit up the mountains and cleaning his room while giggling nervously were really unsettling. Im amazed how open he was with the film makers about; The guy seemed either to be sufficiently self absorbed that he genuinely didnt consider what he is doing wrong, or didnt give a fuck as he was getting his jollies.
Agree with jane as to how the documentary was structured; gave an interesting insight as to how the directors awareness of him being a sex tourist developed.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

. Don't even mention the Glenn/Marketa thing. Like, why aren't people also wondering how it is that a woman who just turned 19 has been dating a guy old enough to be her da for a few years now?

jesus jane, this thread is no place for casual frames begrudury. can you not just be happy for an irish lad done well?

 

[La La]

i dont know much about arts funding and stuff - would the money he be using to....eh...'fund' his activities out there be from aos dana or the arts council or anything?

 

[JohnnyRaz]

i dont know much about arts funding and stuff - would the money he be using to....eh...'fund' his activities out there be from aos dana or the arts council or anything?

meself and the misuss were discussing that; the guy obviously 'lives' by his work, which in this day and age means hes likely to be funded. a quick google search should sort it..

 

[jane]

the scene where they were acting as his 'native bearers' carrying his shit up the mountains and cleaning his room while giggling nervously were really unsettling. Im amazed how open he was with the film makers about; The guy seemed either to be sufficiently self absorbed that he genuinely didnt consider what he is doing wrong, or didnt give a fuck as he was getting his jollies.
Agree with jane as to how the documentary was structured; gave an interesting insight as to how the directors awareness of him being a sex tourist developed.

Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about the whole using-them-as-servants thing. That gave quite a lot of clarity to the abuse of power issue because it highlighted the debt of gratitude the young men seem to feel they have.

There was an point made this morning on Pat Kenny about the invasion of the young men's privacy, that there was a suggestion that maybe showing their identities (I heard earlier that they didn't sign release forms?) actually served to re-exploit them. I hadn't thought of that, but I think it's a fair point.

There's a guy on now talking about how the hotel manager didn't actually mention sexual exploitation, but it seems to have been the epiphany to do with a relationship of east-west power that led her to question what Cathal was doing.