Dublin Racist Riots (3 Viewers)

[Cornu Ammonis]

the cops did a better job of containing the love ulster mayhem (despite o 'connell st effectively being an rioters arsenal of paving stones, fencing and tools) - probably because they were prepared for it.

I’d need to look back on the news reports from the day but definitely it spread all through the city centre, there were scorch marks on Nassau St for a few years afterwards from where they burned out a car across the road from the old Finn’s Hotel.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

Hmmm or maybe I do. Believing the nonsense allows you to be the hero of the story by e.g. refusing vaccines, or burning a bus. Reality doesn't give you opportunities like that

There’s definitely a sense of creating their own reality to make it feel like they have some control or power. Why can’t they just embrace the nihilistic cosmic void like the rest of us?

 

[Unicron]

I’d need to look back on the news reports from the day but definitely it spread all through the city centre, there were scorch marks on Nassau St for a few years afterwards from where they burned out a car across the road from the old Finn’s Hotel.

I think it did made it's way slightly up kidlare st and up to Molesworth St. I think it was Molesworth St where Charlie Bird got some hassle.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Can we just take a second and look at what we're talking about here

Joe Duffy's been on wanting every surveillance technology available deployed
Almost everyone wants the Gards to go in and arrest and lock up anyone involved
We want lads arrested for stuff they say on socials
Paul Reynolds on the radio on Monday snarkily saying how the book shops were all left unharmed

This is the same reaction there was in the US by conservative commentators when black activists rioted after murders by cops.

I am not saying these are the same thing at all.

And I'm not saying the law shouldn't come down on whoever was burning and looting. They should. Absolutely.
Just that it is very easy to call for all these things when it's people you politically disagree with and fear or hate.

And all this could very easily be turned around on a Free Palestine march or something we actually do care about. Not too long ago on this island where the Brits were super fond of indefinitely locking up anyone they didn't like.

We are all angry about what happened and about these hatemongers in our society. Just gotta be careful that we're thoughtful about what we call for. People like Michael McDowell wait in the wings with pet projects for moments like this.

I'm not comparing these situations exactly - every situation is different and distinct - but we do need one set of rules for everyone.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

I think it did made it's way slightly up kidlare st and up to Molesworth St. I think it was Molesworth St where Carlie Bird got some hassle.

largely contained on the bottom end of o connell st - apart from the run down to nassau st.

That came about IIRC because news filtered out that the loyalists were down at the dail (I think they presented a petition or something)

 

[seanc]

Hmmm or maybe I do. Believing the nonsense allows you to be the hero of the story by e.g. refusing vaccines, or burning a bus. Reality doesn't give you opportunities like that

Fair enough. I thought as I was writing "seanc, you're trying and failing to put a lot of different things into a Big Thought". It all sort of makes sense to me, but I find it hard to express in the form of a chat on the internet. So it just comes out as muddled.

But then, of course, that makes me feel like, and read like, one of those misguided conspiracy people.

I didn't think about your hero of the story idea, but I would say that is definitely also a thing. Yeah, that's a part of it.

In the intervening hours I've been thinking about socialism, social activism, social media, social housing, anti social behaviour, bins in Lewisham, WB Yeats, and a bunch of other stuff.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

Can we just take a second and look at what we're talking about here

Joe Duffy's been on wanting every surveillance technology available deployed
Almost everyone wants the Gards to go in and arrest and lock up anyone involved
We want lads arrested for stuff they say on socials
Paul Reynolds on the radio on Monday snarkily saying how the book shops were all left unharmed

This is the same reaction there was in the US by conservative commentators when black activists rioted after murders by cops.

I am not saying these are the same thing at all.

And I'm not saying the law shouldn't come down on whoever was burning and looting. They should. Absolutely.
Just that it is very easy to call for all these things when it's people you politically disagree with and fear or hate.

And all this could very easily be turned around on a Free Palestine march or something we actually do care about. Not too long ago on this island where the Brits were super fond of indefinitely locking up anyone they didn't like.

We are all angry about what happened and about these hatemongers in our society. Just gotta be careful that we're thoughtful about what we call for. People like Michael McDowell wait in the wings with pet projects for moments like this.

I'm not comparing these situations exactly - every situation is different and distinct - but we do need one set of rules for everyone.

I don’t disagree with any of this. I’m actually surprised the chaos wasn’t more extensive on Thursday night given the absolute speed at which things kicked off. Maybe I’m naive but when I heard about the attack on the kids, my mind did not jump anywhere near having any sort of protest, let alone burning down the city. The guards responded, they mobilised and they met the rioters on the streets. They can’t just go in and bash heads, tase them, or shoot them - nor do we really want those things.

You’re dead right, pushing for things like weaponry, heavier handed riot control, etc. is a slippery slope and it’s an arms race. I’m in a WhatsApp group for local daddies (interpret that sentence how you like) and there was a lot of calls for arming the guards (exclusively from guys who are not from Ireland originally). I had visions of pistol-toting guards walking through the flames, executing looters like Judge Dredd and thought “nope!”

Do I think it was a perfect response? No. Do I think they could have seen something like this coming? Yes, that’s their job. Do I feel hate speech is properly monitored and tackled? No. Do I think giving more tools to deal with these events will be helpful? In some respects yes but the clear problem is not with the guards or the agitators, it’s systemic and generational inequality and marginalisation that could be absolutely tackled if we put our minds to it.

It’s like the health system. Paying for more doctors, nurses, buildings, beds and equipment is one solution. Paying for societal changes to prevent serious health problems from manifesting due to behaviour, diet, and exposure to dangers is far better though. Stitch in time approach.

 

[rettucs]

I'm not comparing these situations exactly - every situation is different and distinct - but we do need one set of rules for everyone.

from what I'm seeing, that is what people are calling for. Being too lenient with the nazis has emboldened them. Cops standing back and letting them run amok.

The shit with riot vans etc, that stuff is fair game for anyone acting the bollox, but if there's a bit of upping the ante against one side or other to level shit out, its against the nazis.

 

[Cormcolash]

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[Kermit McDermott]

Anyone got a contact number for the A team....

 

[seanc]

McGuyver maybe?

The ghost of Tony Benn?

Conor McGregors evil twin, who's actually the good one?

Knight Boat?

 

[egg_]

the clear problem is not with the guards or the agitators, it’s systemic and generational inequality and marginalisation that could be absolutely tackled if we put our minds to it

I'm a lot more pessimistic about this than I used to be

 

[pete]

Do I think it was a perfect response? No. Do I think they could have seen something like this coming? Yes, that’s their job. Do I feel hate speech is properly monitored and tackled? No. Do I think giving more tools to deal with these events will be helpful? In some respects yes but the clear problem is not with the guards or the agitators, it’s systemic and generational inequality and marginalisation that could be absolutely tackled if we put our minds to it.

also: stupid people.

 

[Cormcolash]

McGuyver maybe?

The ghost of Tony Benn?

Conor McGregors evil twin, who's actually the good one?

Knight Boat?

Plenty of canal room in Dublin

 

[seanc]

Plenty of canal room in Dublin

The amount of time and energy I've spent thinking about using Dublin's canals.

I don't see it though, unless we have a 15minute city around Croke Park and Blackhorse Avenue.


Edit: hilarious autocorrect

 

[ernesto]

I think it did made it's way slightly up kidlare st and up to Molesworth St. I think it was Molesworth St where Charlie Bird got some hassle.

I thought he got punched outside the GPO

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

also: stupid people.

Don’t be so hard on yourself, Pete.

 

[ann post]

from what I'm seeing, that is what people are calling for. Being too lenient with the nazis has emboldened them. Cops standing back and letting them run amok.

It's got a lot of heads and each option has a +/-

A: Arm up the cops and give them special powers - that's what they did up north and escalation is generally met with escalation. People will be satisfied the first time they see a few heads cracked, then at some point they'll get thier own head cracked because the head cracking squad mostly know how to crack heads only and if you wanna have a riot, you'll need to bring your own head cracking equipment.
It will lead to escalation and is not the intelligent path.

B: Leave them be and ignore them - They* are probably jerking off 5 times a day with all the media coverage and attention they are getting. Society is not able to do this properly anywhoo - twitter takes the bait every time. I've learned more about right wing irish people from anti facist pages than I have from right wing Irish people. The operation they've been running online is wildly succesful because people always take the bait - media literacy is key. But SRSLY if people stopped giving it daily attention on open social media networks they'd just be 30 people in closed loop like they were years ago. There will always be people with these opinions.

Community level work is 100% where it's at, human communication is the only road to de-escalations. Border kids who grew up to be peaceful all know this already.

I do think there might have been an intelligence failure with the gardai but i don't think for a second they aren't working on it at some level at the same time - the laws they are running to charge people on are not new draconian ones, they are 1989 ones. The Gardai are also understaffed and demotivated and not getting the perks that you require to commit to being a pig for life - they are self aware humans and thats a social sacrifice that has to be worth making. They've been talking about it for months.

*by they i mean the group of 30 or so people who have commited a significant amount of time to running american/british style online campaigns in Ireland. As usual I'm not really certain the people who raided the shoe shop have strong political beliefs beyond nothing political ever includes them in any real way.

 

[ernesto]

It's got a lot of heads and each option has a +/-

A: Arm up the cops and give them special powers - that's what they did up north and escalation is generally met with escalation. People will be satisfied the first time they see a few heads cracked, then at some point they'll get thier own head cracked because the head cracking squad mostly know how to crack heads only and if you wanna have a riot, you'll need to bring your own head cracking equipment.
It will lead to escalation and is not the intelligent path.

B: Leave them be and ignore them - They* are probably jerking off 5 times a day with all the media coverage and attention they are getting. Society is not able to do this properly anywhoo - twitter takes the bait every time. I've learned more about right wing irish people from anti facist pages than I have from right wing Irish people. The operation they've been running online is wildly succesful because people always take the bait - media literacy is key. But SRSLY if people stopped giving it daily attention on open social media networks they'd just be 30 people in closed loop like they were years ago. There will always be people with these opinions.

Community level work is 100% where it's at, human communication is the only road to de-escalations. Border kids who grew up to be peaceful all know this already.

I do think there might have been an intelligence failure with the gardai but i don't think for a second they aren't working on it at some level at the same time - the laws they are running to charge people on are not new draconian ones, they are 1989 ones. The Gardai are also understaffed and demotivated and not getting the perks that you require to commit to being a pig for life - they are self aware humans and thats a social sacrifice that has to be worth making. They've been talking about it for months.

*by they i mean the group of 30 or so people who have commited a significant amount of time to running american/british style online campaigns in Ireland. As usual I'm not really certain the people who raided the shoe shop have strong political beliefs beyond nothing political ever includes them in any real way.

Aweee but I want to see some them get their heads smashed in.

 

[Deadmanposting]

It's got a lot of heads and each option has a +/-

A: Arm up the cops and give them special powers - that's what they did up north and escalation is generally met with escalation. People will be satisfied the first time they see a few heads cracked, then at some point they'll get thier own head cracked because the head cracking squad mostly know how to crack heads only and if you wanna have a riot, you'll need to bring your own head cracking equipment.
It will lead to escalation and is not the intelligent path.

B: Leave them be and ignore them - They* are probably jerking off 5 times a day with all the media coverage and attention they are getting. Society is not able to do this properly anywhoo - twitter takes the bait every time. I've learned more about right wing irish people from anti facist pages than I have from right wing Irish people. The operation they've been running online is wildly succesful because people always take the bait - media literacy is key. But SRSLY if people stopped giving it daily attention on open social media networks they'd just be 30 people in closed loop like they were years ago. There will always be people with these opinions.

Community level work is 100% where it's at, human communication is the only road to de-escalations. Border kids who grew up to be peaceful all know this already.

I do think there might have been an intelligence failure with the gardai but i don't think for a second they aren't working on it at some level at the same time - the laws they are running to charge people on are not new draconian ones, they are 1989 ones. The Gardai are also understaffed and demotivated and not getting the perks that you require to commit to being a pig for life - they are self aware humans and thats a social sacrifice that has to be worth making. They've been talking about it for months.

*by they i mean the group of 30 or so people who have commited a significant amount of time to running american/british style online campaigns in Ireland. As usual I'm not really certain the people who raided the shoe shop have strong political beliefs beyond nothing political ever includes them in any real way.

It's not outside of the bounds of plausibility that the Special Criminal Court could be used. Not advocating it, but I can't be the first person who's had the thought.


And we need more Gards from Dublin. Not sure how you do that.
But almost everyone that arrives up from Templemore already sees Dublin as a strange place out of step with ireland. They are not as motivated to serve and protect a place they see as not really theirs to begin with.