Dublin Racist Riots (2 Viewers)

[Kermit McDermott]

 

[flashback]

I thought he got punched outside the GPO

He was in the Botanic Gardens the day before the riots kicked off anyway.

If you'd excuse my bleeding heart: nobody wants to grow up to be a disillusioned, looting, angry, racist.

Like, nobody, even the nastiest shithead out there, had that in mind when they were young. Kids have various aspirations, and learn to see them crushed or moved out of reach.

I love ireland in lots of ways, but I know that parts of Dublin, in the 80s and 90s, were crushing places. Ireland now is not a poor country, by any stretch of the imagination. The cost of investing even enough money in kids just to keep them thinking that doing X might be possible, is fuck all.

It's fuck all. And this is where Ireland is, or was at least, THOROUGHLY shit. We were told in school that there was no chance of getting a job. In Primary school. There was no job, there was no chance of getting a job, jobs were not a thing. The concept of being anything, doing anything, was being beaten out of us from the age of about 8. Dublin offered fuck all.

We robbed stuff out of derelict buildings, made bombs, and rode bikes. We weren't even bad kids, we were good kids. But there's FUCK ALL engagement. If you compare that to Oslo, Copenhagen, various German cities. Even London FFS, they had vastly more space for kids.

I'm not talking about Marley Park Playground, which was to be fair a revelation, I'm talking about a place that you can go and feel safe, and write. Or play cards, or run or whatever. Joining a cycling club was possible, but they were weird things, run by Shay out in Ballybrack, and the concept of getting support was so alien it wasn't even a question.

Meh. Sorry. But Ireland can try to crush its kids slightly less I'd suggest. Even if they didn't want to generate a race war.

 

[Cormcolash]

If only there was like €13 billion quid or something just sitting around somewhere that we could use to invest in kids and communities.

 

[Anthony]

He was in the Botanic Gardens the day before the riots kicked off anyway.

If you'd excuse my bleeding heart: nobody wants to grow up to be a disillusioned, looting, angry, racist.

Like, nobody, even the nastiest shithead out there, had that in mind when they were young. Kids have various aspirations, and learn to see them crushed or moved out of reach.

I love ireland in lots of ways, but I know that parts of Dublin, in the 80s and 90s, were crushing places. Ireland now is not a poor country, by any stretch of the imagination. The cost of investing even enough money in kids just to keep them thinking that doing X might be possible, is fuck all.

It's fuck all. And this is where Ireland is, or was at least, THOROUGHLY shit. We were told in school that there was no chance of getting a job. In Primary school. There was no job, there was no chance of getting a job, jobs were not a thing. The concept of being anything, doing anything, was being beaten out of us from the age of about 8. Dublin offered fuck all.

Shit man, where did you go to school? This was absolutely not the message I was given in the 80s. It was all very much "you are the future, Ireland's greatest assett" etc

 

[egg_]

The cost of investing even enough money in kids just to keep them thinking that doing X might be possible, is fuck all.

It's fuck all. And this is where Ireland is, or was at least, THOROUGHLY shit. We were told in school that there was no chance of getting a job. In Primary school. There was no job, there was no chance of getting a job, jobs were not a thing. The concept of being anything, doing anything, was being beaten out of us from the age of about 8. Dublin offered fuck all.
...
Meh. Sorry. But Ireland can try to crush its kids slightly less I'd suggest. Even if they didn't want to generate a race war.

The 80s are gone @flashback

Ask your kids about it. They're probably being told that if they work hard they can achieve anything.

 

[rettucs]

It's got a lot of heads and each option has a +/-

A: Arm up the cops and give them special powers - that's what they did up north and escalation is generally met with escalation. People will be satisfied the first time they see a few heads cracked, then at some point they'll get thier own head cracked because the head cracking squad mostly know how to crack heads only and if you wanna have a riot, you'll need to bring your own head cracking equipment.
It will lead to escalation and is not the intelligent path.

B: Leave them be and ignore them - They* are probably jerking off 5 times a day with all the media coverage and attention they are getting. Society is not able to do this properly anywhoo - twitter takes the bait every time. I've learned more about right wing irish people from anti facist pages than I have from right wing Irish people. The operation they've been running online is wildly succesful because people always take the bait - media literacy is key. But SRSLY if people stopped giving it daily attention on open social media networks they'd just be 30 people in closed loop like they were years ago. There will always be people with these opinions.

Community level work is 100% where it's at, human communication is the only road to de-escalations. Border kids who grew up to be peaceful all know this already.

I do think there might have been an intelligence failure with the gardai but i don't think for a second they aren't working on it at some level at the same time - the laws they are running to charge people on are not new draconian ones, they are 1989 ones. The Gardai are also understaffed and demotivated and not getting the perks that you require to commit to being a pig for life - they are self aware humans and thats a social sacrifice that has to be worth making. They've been talking about it for months.

*by they i mean the group of 30 or so people who have commited a significant amount of time to running american/british style online campaigns in Ireland. As usual I'm not really certain the people who raided the shoe shop have strong political beliefs beyond nothing political ever includes them in any real way.

or a variant of A, arm up the cops, but only temporarily, with shit loaded to them by the PSNI. Crack a few nazi heads, then give the shit back when the nazis heads have been cracked and they are all floating in the sea

on B, I agree with this and it is why Ireland needs to ban twitter. all of those other things they use are just echo chambers. Twitter gives them a bit of traction because of 2-bit journos like Richard Chambers, whose job it is to scan twitter all day for the next news story, then pass it off as his own scoop.

 

[egg_]

Dude, come on - how on earth would Ireland ban twitter? Are we going to set up a country-level firewall like China has?

 

[ernesto]

Dude, come on - how on earth would Ireland ban twitter? Are we going to set up a country-level firewall like China has?

Yes?

 

[ann post]

or a variant of A, arm up the cops, but only temporarily, with shit loaded to them by the PSNI. Crack a few nazi heads, then give the shit back when the nazis heads have been cracked and they are all floating in the sea

Are you actually saying that somehow drew harris of the PSNI should get more PSNI hardware to beat up Irish people with in Ireland and thinking that wont be a 100% vertical escalation of tension and violence levels from both sides and new third tension that didn't exist in the first place. That's a terrible idea.

 

[ann post]

If they talk you into violence, they've already won.

 

[egg_]

Yes?

Seriously? If Leo Varadkar announced today that Irish people's access to the internet was going to be restricted from now on, and it'd cost €X million quid to hire the people to do it - how'd you think that'd go for him, votes-wise?

 

[rettucs]

Dude, come on - how on earth would Ireland ban twitter? Are we going to set up a country-level firewall like China has?

thats the dream

at least call Musk's bluff on it. If they won't change it up so that people can be held accountable for their comments, it gets banned.

 

[rettucs]

Are you actually saying that somehow drew harris of the PSNI should get more PSNI hardware to beat up Irish people with in Ireland and thinking that wont be a 100% vertical escalation of tension and violence levels from both sides and new third tension that didn't exist in the first place. That's a terrible idea.

I wasn't being serious.

I was saying, arming the cops is bad, but arming the cops temporarily, with weapons loaned from a one-time nazi police force, to beat up nazis, is less bad.

 

[rettucs]

Seriously? If Leo Varadkar announced today that Irish people's access to the internet was going to be restricted from now on, and it'd cost €X million quid to hire the people to do it - how'd you think that'd go for him, votes-wise?

it wouldn't. The handful of ISPs would block it at source. It would be very simple to do.

there would always be back doors, of course, but most people wouldn't be arsed.

I don't think anyone would lose either sleep or votes over losing access to twitter. Tiktok and facebook, yes. Twitter, no.

 

[ann post]

I'd rather spend the money on teaching people to not take the bait every single day they go on the internet. facebook was the arena for trump/russian misinformation era, now supposed irish patriots are superimposing a russian/american/british model on twitter in ireland. Close twitter and they'll move to the next arena, teach people to deal with it and they wont.

 

[rettucs]

I'd rather spend the money on teaching people to not take the bait every single day they go on the internet. facebook was the arena for trump/russian misinformation era, now supposed irish patriots are superimposing a russian/american/british model on twitter in ireland. Close twitter and they'll move to the next arena, teach people to deal with it and they wont.

fair point.

but also, close twitter anyway cos of the cunt running it.

the other media might be worth fighting for but not twitter

 

[Anthony]

Let Musk charge for Twitter, that'll kill it.

 

[flashback]

Shit man, where did you go to school? This was absolutely not the message I was given in the 80s. It was all very much "you are the future, Ireland's greatest assett" etc

School in Irishtown, out by the reclaimed land. I'm not criticizing the school, It was a good school.
That was just what we were told, maybe with the idea that you have to start preparing to leave at some point. Which I guess I did.

The 80s are gone @flashback

Ask your kids about it. They're probably being told that if they work hard they can achieve anything.

The 80s being gone is my point. Ireland has no excuse for this now. And, while I'm sure kids are told they can be whatever, the reality of some areas is that they learn very quickly this is hollow shite talking.
My point is we were given nothing to do, nowhere to go, so we went out wandering and ended up getting into things. The areas these immigrants are being farmed out to, I'd suspect, are in worse shape, with no places for the kids to go, sit down, be quiet and feel safe.

This is not like, for example - last place I've been to, Berlin. My point is, we're a proper grown up country now, and we should be able to go to other EU countries, notice they're doing some things well, and copy that. We don't even need to come up with our own ideas here.

 

[egg_]

I'd rather spend the money on teaching people to not take the bait every single day they go on the internet

Honestly man this sounds lovely, but it's just as impossible as the "close twitter" idea. Who's going to teach them? How are they going to teach them? Is some nice old lady going to go around knocking on doors in Ballybough saying "would you like me to teach you how to distinguish between fantasy and reality"?

 

[egg_]

... having said that @ann post I 100% agree that human-to-human connection is the only effective way to counter this kind of shit, but state-funded education on how to use the internet is just wildly unlikely to work.