Converge in Dublin (1 Viewer)

[the strange guy]

I won't get out of bed for less than 200 euro a week.

 

[Cormcolash]

To Brian, well I think Children of Fall are generalising in a big way if they are simply saying that a lot of American bands are assholes. Theres been loads of American bands over here that have been totally dead on in every way. I'll single out Broken who were over a few years back, they were one of the nicest bands I ever met and they were fuckin great musically too.
But there is a point in the stance if they care to make it. Fact is, for a lot of American bands, coming over and touring in Europe is a good old money spinner. The problem there is that in these situations, almost all the money will go to some record label or a usually German-based booking company, and these are the guys that make the money from this stuff. A lot of bands will rely on merchandise to earn a bit of money in this case. I think the whole situation has arisen as a result of the influence of major labels on the punk scene, they are truly the enemy. In reality most of the booking companies mentioned are either run in a relatively DIY manner or have their roots in the DIY scene and will be ready to work with promoters on at least a semi-DIY basis.
The reason the situation annoys me, is that it hardly works at all vice-versa. How many European bands go over and tour America on a regular basis? As far as the punk scene is concerned, very few. Most bands that go to America are shit indie type stuff on domestic major labels (okay I generalize a bit there), and that means really that a lot of American labels, sometimes not even the big ones, are making a lot of money on bands that tour in Europe, so basically I think the European punk scene on a whole is suffering as a result of this one-way system, and this is especially reflected in the outlying and specifically less densly populated parts of Europe such as our own country, where it can be very difficult to get any sort of touring band to play due to the increased travelling costs.

It seems obvious to me that when an overseas band of any sort comes and plays in Europe, with very few exceptions, somebody is making money out of it. If this wasn't the case, I don't think there would be nearly so many American bands that take the time to come over here in the first place. At the end of the day, America is basically the beginning and the end of the music industry, they are rolling the dollars in over there, and the problem is simply that they have managed to make an industry out of it. I know things aren't quite as bad in the punk scene, but it still exists to a certain extent.
From this perspective, I see a reasonable basis to argue against any band coming over and playing here. But when all's said and done, the majority of the time the band themselves are not the problem, and it would be nice if everyone didn't judge so many bands simply by reputation or hearsay but waited to actually see for themselves what the people were like, especially when they are willing to make non-sensical excuses for bands that they just happen to like. Because either way, some American (or possibly German) invariably ends up making money sitting on their hole in this system, and the people most at risk from losing money are the promoters and the bands themselves.

Oh and in no way am I having a go at Brian there (sure I don't even know him), that was just a general opinion on my part. In fact I think the problem goes even deeper than this, but this post is long enough without me elaborating on why I think that is the case.

 

[Super Dexta]

Cormac stop being serious, you're scaring me.
Incidentally I know what the converge guarantee is (i'm not going to say it though because it's not my business to pass on) and it equates to €12 being a fair ticket price.
And I thought ray cappo was alright, the rest of the band (the younger guys) were twits though. "Dude... hang out with us... leave your friends sitting waiting for you... we're cool" etc
That is all.

 

[the strange guy]

...(okay I generalize a bit there)...

Fucking hell, I know you love American bands, but there's no need to suck their cock by using their spelling too.

 

[damien]

a few things, like this thread needs more...
about all the guarantee shit, this is my first gig EVER dealing with a band who wanted a guarantee. i just felt that they're only coming over for one show, thats the money they want and they know they can get it, who am i to say thats not the way it should be done, and if i hadnt accepted they would have just gone with a bigger promoter who wouldnt give a fuck.
i think the real debate here is the popularity of bigger, so-called guarantee bands vs DIY bands. A big band like Converge brings out so much interest but very few people seem to care about a band if they are small and havent got much press coverage, even if they are fucking amazing, so just as i'm excited about this gig i am really looking forward to asschapel and my own lies tonight. they will play for what we give them but i'm sure they'll put at much into their performance as anyone.

on topic: converge tickets will be on sale in galway, cork and belfast. just so you know. details soon.

 

[brianMy Remorse]

just as a point, i could be wrong, but as far as i know all money made by a band for their live performance goes to them, none goes to the label. thats why bands need to tour so much (along with the love for doing it and keeping their popularity) the revenue from record sales doesnt add up to much for bands (at least playing punk/hardcore) but as i say i could be wrong

 

[bohs punks]

Personally i think the guarantee thing is only important in the context of non profit vs profit making promoters / bands.

i made the mistaek naive and all that this might sound of confusing diy with non profit for ages, fo rexampel soem of th emost famous "diy" distributors look fo ra mark up of 33 - 40 percent on cds, books etc. technically they say they are trying to pay for costs, make a living from it etc which is fair enough i suppose but is not non profit - its a low profit margin business. what i dont like is when the profit bit is hidden.

similarly mcd are a profit making business, no questions., kerry john and ultra mack are agin upfront in saying they try to make a living from gigs - again a low profit margin business, again i have no problem as long as these peopel are up front about it.

now again correct me if im wrong but i thought gz was non profit making, so i presume the gig price is based on a calculation of costs of the venue, posters etc,pay the support band and pa, add the guarantee and divide by expected number of punters and add a small bit to be on the safe side. money left over goes back to support loss makign gigs.

i dont need to know the specifics as i happen to know some of the gz peopel and trust their ethics etc but a lot of other people at the gig wont, so if you dont explain tot them th enon profit nature fo th eevent they may just assume its 12 euro cause the promoters have added 500 for themsleves on top. how are peopel supposed ot know if they dont know ye?

 

[niallmc]

As GZ are doing the gig, I think it is our business how much CONVERGE are being paid. If it was a major label band we would have no qualms anout talking about it. There's no need to hide it.

Either that or GZ have decided to play the music business game for a band they like. To me it comes down to community. Are we part of a community or are we a group of individuals.

As for who is "supporting" converge. It is the people who are paying in. The bands that are also playing on the night are doing just that. Playing with.

 

[W.]

can someone clear this up. are converge on or have they ever been on a major?

 

[xConorx]

I think people should not be cagey about expenses - I have no problem telling people why Hope Conspiracy is a fiver - I would break it down if people were concerned (although obviously there's no need to unless people actually ask).

It's not my secret business to keep a "guarantee" from the people who are going to paying in. I am no more important or priveleged than anyone else who comes down to the show. No secrets. I think transparency is important in punk, especially in separating punk gigs from profit making gigs.

 

[damien]

eirecore keeps eating up my replies. grrr. i had a really long one written. i really couldnt care less what anyone thinks, people have not been caring less about what ive been doing for years.

 

[damien]

transparency is fine, i havent been keeping the money side a secret. i'm just not posting it on this board. lets say thats they're looking for a lot, lot, lot more than a certain other US hardcore band playing soon in dublin for €12.

 

[damien]

actually the more i think about it the more this thread pisses me off. i'm going to ask pete/weeler to lock it. so much bullshit, and this isnt the place, go and discuss it on another thread. if anyone wants to ask me/argue with me about the converge gig do it in person, or at least by email. i'm not hard to find. the metallers have written nothing but praise. maybe i'll go join their scene, bruxelles is quite close to the gaff.

 

[oh shit]

i dont see why it's anyone's business except the people putting the show on. if they lose money on it, it's not like everyone in this community is going to pass a hat around to make up for it.

 

[jmlcomp]

just on the shelter thing in cork...
we made them dinner, they liked it, were very nice to us....
then at the gig they brought no gear so we, rev of a sun, and my remorse sorted out all that...
at one point someone from the band said to our guitarist that this gear wasn't what they were used to it and it was a bit crap, to which he responded that we were all skint and this was the best we could do, he seemed fine about it...
i had no interest in shelter either way but it turned out to be a damn funny gig...
especially the bastard youths being bastards...
and on the converge thing well who cares, i'm happy that they are coming over...
and i am grateful to the people organising it...
and can you imagine the organisational headach that this is going to be for them...
me heart goes out to ye....

 

[xConorx]

No one is giving the people putting on the show shit - the point as I have said is that people moaned and complained about other bands that had guarantees or higher than normal ticket prices but nobody questions it when it's a "cool" band.

From what I've read, no-one has a problem with Converge asking for a guarantee(I certainly don't), the ticket price or the people putting on the gig. It was mainly about the double standard regarding other touring bands where the promoter had been given shit for putting on bands with guarantee. I still maintain that people will overlook certain issue if they like a bands music and complain when they don't like the bands music.

Here's the gist:

Pop-punk/"toughguy"/ska band - if they have a guarantee they are not DIY and are using the DIY scene to make it big and are evil and we should boycott their gig and complain about them as much as possible on the internet.

Grind/thrash/technical hardcore crushing amazing earsbleed band - if they have a guarantee that's fair enough *makes excuse* "they don't call themselves a hc band anyway sure"

Alright so that's a simplification - main point - don't give a band shit just because you don't like their music - be a bit more objective!

 

[Cormcolash]

Fucking hell, I know you love American bands, but there's no need to suck their cock by using their spelling too.

I know I have to use American spelling in my job and it fucking creeps through into other things too. I actually physically try not to do it but sometimes a z will replace an s without me noticing. Bastards.

As for the bands making money from live shows, technically the money might first go the band themselves, but all the foreign bands I have put on gigs for have immediately just had to give it to either the booking company or record label they are with to cover their travelling etc. costs.

Certainly, if the bands were able to keep all the money, the booking companies would not exist because there would be absolutely no way for them to make money.

 

[Trues]

Dedicated follower of fashion

No, really, this thread is very interesting; for us non-'punks'.

Re: earlier posts
Alls I know is, The Dagda was offered the The Hope Conspiracy gig by Toxic John, and Biggy G decided it was a No-No, as he'd prefer to play with DIY bands only (€12??!!). I was up for playing that one, never having played in Whelans before, and a gig's a gig.

We've been offered the Converge slot also. I quoted G back to himself and, well, it *is* Converge apparently.

As long as we get 50%+ of our travel costs and a floor to crash on...

Make of that what you will.
!baggyyyy

ps Lynch and Lyadane, you've been added to my list(s)...

 

[Damage Central]

The Apers were looking £100 a night for four gigs - which, even if they'd got it, wouldn't even have covered their ferry. They got about £300 for four gigs, put in 100% every night and were really nice people. But of course, since they're pop-punk/Dutch/clean, they are bastards full stop and are using the HC scene to get big (HA HA, what utter bollocks). They drove overnight from Derry to Torquay (600 miles) for another gig where they got paid £50 and again were happy. They were the most DIY band I've ever dealt with - totally reasonable guys and a million miles away in attitude from other more supposedly DIY/hardcore/whatever bands who whinged from the second they showed up (e.g. Leftover FUCKING Crack who complained about soggy pizzas, tap water instead of bottled water, lack of towels, lack of dressing room etc etc).

I agree 100% with what Conor is saying on this thread. Cormak is also making some very good points. Local (DIY) promoters put in all the effort and lose shitloads of sleep/money while some German booking agent gets a big fat percentage for sending a couple of emails. Fuck that. The punk scene has totally gone up its own arse in the last ten years, it's now all about money and it's fucking SICK.

For the record, and for anyone who gives a fuck, the most down-to-earth, reasonable and downright fucking sane bands I have thus dealt with were:

Groovie Ghoulies
The Apers
Poison Idea
Lightyear

You don't have to be unlistenable crusty doomcore shite to be DIY.

 

[scrawlzine]

Trues...maybe you're pissed but you're talking shite.

I said I would rather play only DIY gigs and not gigs with high door prices or promoters. True. My exact stance on the Converge slot was "I really like Converge and I'd be up for playing this, it's someone we know doing the gig but it's up to everybody in the band". That's pretty much an exact quote. The Hope Conspiracy gig was asked before we went on tour and had already agreed about taking time off, which was the original plan if you recall - not anything against Toxic or The Hope Conspiracy. (We are now playing with Asschapel etc. and Makiladoras by a matter of default given circumstances, local availability of support etc)
I told Damien I'd be e-mailing him a "yes" or "no" last weekend after I thought we'd be practicing in Drogheda and the rest of the band...I haven't as yet as I haven't taked to everyone else.

Basically, playing or not playing with Converge is neither going to harm or help The Dagda's career, simply because it's NOT a career.

Trues...you have grossly misrepresented me here. If that's your attitude, you should perhaps try communicating to members of your band in the flesh before talking complete arse on the world wide web.