Complementary Therapy (1 Viewer)

[Cornu Ammonis]

Apologies for the tl; dr-ness of the above post.

 

[Diumraid]

@Cornu Ammonis - part of the difficulty with your standpoint, as I see it, is that you're arguing entirely from within the box of scientific method, of blind-testing and all-things-being-equal.

We can run with the placebo idea to the conclusion that the result is the person healing themselves with (or without) the help of conventional medicine rather than the inverse (ie conventional medicine plus 'complementary' treatment. This implies a more dynamic relationship between the healer and the person seeking treatment.

From this point of view, the personal nature of the relationship between the person seeking treatment and the particular treatments (and particular healers for that matter) means there is no guarantee of success or of particular results. It is vague because it's very much on an individual basis. I believe it needs to be thought about differently to the way you are describing.

In a greater holistic view this also has implications for all kinds of other 'services' that tend, in fact to act as Procrustean beds that will chop off a person's feet to make them fit. There is an inherent problem with standardization, and believe me that i'm not naive about the problems of a free-for-all, but there's a kernel of truth in the alt-healing issue that has big ramifications.

 

[Diumraid]

I do agree with you about wild claims and desperate people though

 

[nooleen]

i don't know anyone who's pro crusty-in-bed

this fucking crusty went and slept in my parents' bed in the nip one time we had a party/free house, i was very much anti that

 

[Diumraid]

Scabies has feelings too you know!

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

@Cornu Ammonis - part of the difficulty with your standpoint, as I see it, is that you're arguing entirely from within the box of scientific method, of blind-testing and all-things-being-equal.

We can run with the placebo idea to the conclusion that the result is the person healing themselves with (or without) the help of conventional medicine rather than the inverse (ie conventional medicine plus 'complementary' treatment. This implies a more dynamic relationship between the healer and the person seeking treatment.

From this point of view, the personal nature of the relationship between the person seeking treatment and the particular treatments (and particular healers for that matter) means there is no guarantee of success or of particular results. It is vague because it's very much on an individual basis. I believe it needs to be thought about differently to the way you are describing.

In a greater holistic view this also has implications for all kinds of other 'services' that tend, in fact to act as Procrustean beds that will chop off a person's feet to make them fit. There is an inherent problem with standardization, and believe me that i'm not naive about the problems of a free-for-all, but there's a kernel of truth in the alt-healing issue that has big ramifications.

I don't think the scientific method is incompatible with more patient-focussed, experiential approaches to healing. I think they have been ignored in the past because the studies have been difficult to do and difficult to interpret without the simpler studies done first (i.e. a standard blind trial of treatment versus a placebo versus no treatment). The one treatment fits all approach works in a broad sense but everyone knows that a number of patients will not fit into the neat categories or respond to treatment in the same way for practically endless reasons. However, it being difficult to study shouldn't mean it isn't studied with as much rigour and attention to detail as possible.

Take, for example, the various psychotherapies that are available. There is a school of thought that none of them really work any better than any other but that it depends entirely on which therapy the individual identifies with and is likely to engage with. For some people, the poetry and interpretive nature of psychoanalysis works but for others a more logic-based cognitive-behavioural approach works. This could well be the same for complementary therapies that on the surface there is no difference between reflexology, acupuncture and placebo on a population level but perhaps sub-groups exist that are more susceptible to one treatment over another. If there was a way of identifying that, it would legitimise the treatment, help patients make an informed decision (also part of the healing process) and hopefully be of more therapeutic value.

It is also worth toying with the idea of placebo as treatment. The placebo effect is real and can work for many aspects of a disease or disorder. There could be a fine line complementary medicine can work in to actually assist by placebo, though saying it can help with infertility or immune problems might still be pushing it.

Scabies has feelings too you know!

When we moved into our house, there was a knackered looking double bed in the main bedroom. We were wondering about keeping it as a spare bed until we found the doctor's receipt and information leaflet for scabies in the wardrobe.

 

[pete]

i don't know anyone who's pro crusty-in-bed

this fucking crusty went and slept in my parents' bed in the nip one time we had a party/free house, i was very much anti that

How is cormy these days anyway?

 

[Squack]

All valid and important points. I trained in Cancer Care Massage with Gayle MacDonald, author of Medicine Hands. She works in an Oncology Ward in Portland, Oregon and has seen the value and results from both massage and reflexology. I trained with Claire O'Grady based in the west who treats cancer patients daily with reflexology and has been doing so for many years. I also worked on cancer patients in a hospice during my training I will be providing these treatments initially through a hospice setting, but also this is to allow clients to know that they can get massage and reflexology at any stage of their treatment.
I agree that there does need to be more rigorous documentation and testing of these treatments.
I left a very good job with good money to pursue this, not to rip people off, but to help them in whatever way I can so that they feel better.
I have been treating a pregnant client for the last 4 weeks on a weekly basis who is suffering with severe pain in lower back and groin. All I can say is that her telling me that the reflexology I am providing is making a difference is evidence enough for me right now to know I am on the right path for me.

 

[GO]

Complementary Therapy.

Dr... "Well,Mrs Dribblecock,you mightn't be feeling the best but you look fabulous today"

 

[ann post]

Why is the "other stuff" deeply unscientific? As I mentioned above, modern medicine readily acknowledges that a more holistic approach is better than a cold, clinical drug-focussed approach. Whether all clinicians practice this is a different issue but I would argue that "other stuff" on top or instead of drugs is best practice. What this "other stuff" is though, needs to be determined.

Considering modern medicine cant actually cure my disease and doesn't understand it, you have to accept that I don't either. I am not trained in a science. What I am talking about is anecdotal evidence from various people at support groups and stuff.

I am only really able to discuss this at a 'if it makes you feel better, do it' kind of level and science is something i love and respect but it hasn't caught up with me yet. People in chronic pain (that is, me), while it is easy to brand us as desperate or easy meat for snake oil sellers are not people who have the time or energy to keep returning to something that does not make them feel better. Chronic pain is one symptom, depression, despondency, isolation, anxiety and a load of other stuff comes with it for free. If you are treating any of the above in a way that makes it go away and gives a person one less level of crap to deal with, you are part of the cure.

 

[Squack]

I don't advertise the cancer care treatments lightly. I do it to take the stigma out of the disease and to show people that no matter what stage of their illness they are at, complementary therapy can benefit them hugely. I, like nearly everyone, have known many people who have lived with and passed away due to cancer.
I want to show people that no matter what disease or disorder they live with, a complementary therapy can help with it and make their lives that little bit easier.

 

[taubstumm]

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[billygannon]

Complementary Therapy.

Dr... "Well,Mrs Dribblecock,you mightn't be feeling the best but you look fabulous today"

Look Good...Feel Better | Helping Women With Cancer

 

[billygannon]

I think complementary is being mixed up with alternative.

 

[Squack]

Alternative therapies associated with reduction in cancer-related pain and anxiety, Allina researchers find | MinnPost

 

[Squack]

so my 1st pregnant client, suffering with pgp and spd, who never had reflexology before she met me, now wants me to continue with her up until her due date week... Christmas day what a lovely way to help a mum to be welcome a new arrival

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Fair play

 

[Squack]

Turkey legalizes alternative medicine - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

 

[adamus]

An excellent scientific resource for questions of alternative/complimentary/traditional medicine etc

Science-Based Medicine