Bomb attacks in london (2 Viewers)

[jane]

Like this:


or this:

 

[oh shit]

great, blair on the radio
"we shall prevail, they shall not"

so we were talking about racism and stuff...

 

[Pantone247]

unfortunately there's still the economic impulses to engage in wars around the world, that were there before 9/11 and haven't really been altered by it...

but previous to 9/11 England never really ran a war economy... I don't think it's as ingrained in it's "economic culture" (for want of a far better word!) as it would in the US

I'd be off the opinion that Blair's involvement in America's campaign was much more political then economic... though obviosuly keeping tight with the US had it's own rewards, economic and other...

I think, again IMHO, that about a year or a year and a half ago the British opinon was getting in with the US on 'Operation Freedon" or whatever you want to call it, was a massive mistake, but one they were going too have too live with for quite some time

Fucking tragic that it has to come to this...

 

[oh shit]

i know what you mean but i have read a few different books that in various ways frame the humanitarian interventions of the 1990s as part of the new system of international governance and economics based around 'neoliberal networks'...
it's just one way of looking at it but one book in particular written in 2000 laid down a pretty accurate pattern that was played out since 9/11

but yeah it's more than basic economics in international relations, always has been

 

[Lefty Frizzell]

so what are the latest fatality figures? most sources are just saying 'a number of people dead'.

if its under 30 it'll be a miracle.

 

[Pantone247]

i know what you mean but i have read a few different books that in various ways frame the humanitarian interventions of the 1990s as part of the new system of international governance and economics based around 'neoliberal networks'...

heh heh heh, my first reaction was "ooohhh cynical" but it's probably actually a very fair point...

What was the book out of curosity??

 

[Donkey OJ]

Fucking tragic that it has to come to this...

sounds flippant as fuck but what goes around comes around. thousands of iraqi civilians have been annihilated in the so called iraq war by british and american forces. no one should be surprised, that if it *is* a muslim fundamentalist attack, that it has become a war in a real sense with the target striking back at its aggressors, rather than a uni lateral or bi lateral uncontested invasion. i'm not defending the attacks in anyway. but its a very understandable reaction to some pretty unjust and aggressive provocation. and striking the british government at their epicenter is always going to be a billion times more effective than killing even hundred of nameless young soldiers thousands of miles away.

 

[oh shit]

heh heh heh, my first reaction was "ooohhh cynical" but it's probably actually a very fair point...

What was the book out of curosity??

Mark Duffield - 'Global Governance and the New Wars: the merging of development and security'

i'm probably going to get this wrong/over-simplify, but basically the premise is that the North/South division shifted to one where there is a primarily informational economy in the global North, consolidated around the US, EU, and Japan,
and development aid flows not to the entire South in an effort to spread capitalism/liberalism (as was the prevailing theory in the cold war), but flows instead selectively to certain nations/regions which themselves have to re-structure along neoliberal lines, thus 'justifying' Western investment.
the rest are ignored, ie most of africa, and excluded from the global economy. new wars develop in excluded areas as the state economy falls apart and loses legitimacy... wars often fought along ethnic lines. and the North only intervenes where these conflicts interface with areas they are interested in.

following intervention there is an effort to 'nation build' a new neoliberal economy.

the iraq war kinda fucks with the practice, but you can see the basic premise holding true

 

[jane]

Here's George Bush on my radio now. Gulp.

 

[oh shit]

he's talking about human rights and liberty, what a gas. sounds like he's riffing.

'this is... um... the war on terror goes on... we will find them we will bring them to justice and at the same time we will spread an ideology of hope and justice that will overwhelm their ideology of hate.'

 

[Pantone247]

Here's George Bush on my radio now. Gulp.

what's he saying to you?

edit:

[for the less sharp among you the "gag" here is the idea that Jane has a little radio on which george bush can persoanlly get in touch with her... thus the comic humour... bathe in it's golden light...]

 

[jane]

what's he saying to you?

Basically what Oh Shit just posted.

Thing is, George, you won't find them and bring them to justice. Some of them, at least, are probably dead already. Which is exactly why you will round up anyone who reminds you of an Arab and you will stick them in a camp and torture them, and then use some fucked up Holocaust reference to justify why it's okay for YOU to put people in prisons and camps and pretend human rights don't apply to them.

ETA: Yes, I got the 'gag'. My post did come off as if all Americans come equipped with some sort of direct line to the president. If only!

 

[coast to coast]

Mark Duffield - 'Global Governance and the New Wars: the merging of development and security'

i'm probably going to get this wrong/over-simplify, but basically the premise is that the North/South division shifted to one where there is a primarily informational economy in the global North, consolidated around the US, EU, and Japan,
and development aid flows not to the entire South in an effort to spread capitalism/liberalism (as was the prevailing theory in the cold war), but flows instead selectively to certain nations/regions which themselves have to re-structure along neoliberal lines, thus 'justifying' Western investment.
the rest are ignored, ie most of africa, and excluded from the global economy. new wars develop in excluded areas as the state economy falls apart and loses legitimacy... wars often fought along ethnic lines. and the North only intervenes where these conflicts interface with areas they are interested in.

following intervention there is an effort to 'nation build' a new neoliberal economy.

the iraq war kinda fucks with the practice, but you can see the basic premise holding true

the iraq war does fuck with the practice for nearly every theory about international security.

I don't find the premise of that book all that gruesome though. Its a practical means of developing democratic liberal economies...but of course the have-nots (losers of the globalisation, whatever you call them) are clearly gonna be pissed off, hence...

 

[Pantone247]

ETA: Yes, I got the 'gag'. My post did come off as if all Americans come equipped with some sort of direct line to the president. If only!

heh heh heh

late at night

*ssshzzztttt* Jane, Jane
*ssshzzztt*
come on Jane this is George here
*ssshhzzzttt*
Jane, it's time to complete your Ultimate
*ssshhhzzttt*
Freedom
*ssshhhzzttt*
Mission
*ssshhhzzttt*
kill all the Irish!
*ssshhzzzttt*
ALL the Irish
*ssshhzzzttt*
....
*ssshhzzzttt*
KILL KILL KILL!!!
*ssshhzzzztt*
...
*ssshhzzzttt*
Jane, pick up I know you there!!
*ssshhhzzzttt*

Jane flushes radio down toilet

 

[oh shit]

yeah the book itself is an analysis of the theory and the results...
the theory is of course based on liberalism, which never looks all that bad on paper.
but our affluent liberal economies did not develop in free markets, there's always been some level of state intervention, to realistically expect it to work in under-developed nations seems like a bad idea. though maybe mozambique would prove me wrong here...

the other victims are of course the people who suffer when their society is replaced by primitive resource wars, genocides, 'shadow economies' that fund the wars, disease and so forth... their fate seems even worse than the sweatshop labourers who are 'included' in the economy

 

[billygannon]

Looks like flights to London are going to be re-arranged.

We were sent an e-mail asking to re-arrange any flights where the destination is London between now and the 11th July.

 

[P. Littbarski]

from the breaking news section of www.irishnews.com

Italy and Denmark threatened in claim
07/07/2005
13:30:12

A group calling itself The Secret Organisation of al-Qaida in Europe has posted a claim of responsibility for the series of blasts in London, saying they were in retaliation for Britain’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The statement, which also threatened attacks in Italy and Denmark, was published on a website popular with Islamic militants, according to Elaph, a secular Arabic-language news website, and Der Spiegel magazine in Berlin, which both published the text on their websites.

“Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan,” said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo.

The authenticity of the message could not be immediately confirmed. The Associated Press was unable to access the website where it was posted, which was closed quickly after the reports.

“The heroic mujahedeen carried out a blessed attack in London, and now Britain is burning with fear and terror, from north to south, east to west,” the statement said.

“We warned the British government repeated. We have carried out our promise and carried out a military attack in Britain after great efforts by the heroic mujahedeen over a long period to ensure its success.”

“We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all crusader governments that they will receive the same punishment if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan,” the statement went on.

It was signed: The Secret Organisation of al-Qaida in Europe.

The last major attack in Europe claimed by al-Qaida was a string of bombs that hit commuter trains in Madrid in March 2004, killing 191 people.

 

[jane]

heh heh heh

late at night

*ssshzzztttt* Jane, Jane
*ssshzzztt*
come on Jane this is George here
*ssshhzzzttt*
Jane, it's time to complete your Ultimate
*ssshhhzzttt*
Freedom
*ssshhhzzttt*
Mission
*ssshhhzzttt*
kill all the Irish!
*ssshhzzzttt*
ALL the Irish
*ssshhzzzttt*
....
*ssshhzzzttt*
KILL KILL KILL!!!
*ssshhzzzztt*
...
*ssshhzzzttt*
Jane, pick up I know you there!!
*ssshhhzzzttt*

Jane flushes radio down toilet

Something like that.

George is scarier than anything in the world.

People are all up in arms, like this is some surprise, and of course it's barbaric, but it happens every fucking day in Iraq. Except when it happens there, the news media doesn't suspend all other programming. They just go, "A series of explosions has rocked the Iraqi capital of Baghdad, killing an estimated 57 people, and injuring hundreds more. The blasts are believed to have been carried out by anti-coalition insurgents. And now, twenty hours of sports coverage...."

Every single day. We've just stopped paying much attention.

 

[Bag'o'cans]

"Jihad in Europe" are claiming it now, a branch of Al qaeda. I don't think its as hectic as its imagined while sitting at work, was watching the news at home, it's business as usual in most of london.

ken livingstone gave a good enough speech saying people come to cities to get away from haters like you, now fuck off. (not in those words)

 

[Bag'o'cans]

Something like that.

George is scarier than anything in the world.

People are all up in arms, like this is some surprise, and of course it's barbaric, but it happens every fucking day in Iraq. Except when it happens there, the news media doesn't suspend all other programming. They just go, "A series of explosions has rocked the Iraqi capital of Baghdad, killing an estimated 57 people, and injuring hundreds more. The blasts are believed to have been carried out by anti-coalition insurgents. And now, twenty hours of sports coverage...."

Every single day. We've just stopped paying much attention.

Not to belittle what you're saying, cos i do agree, but, there is a war going on there!