bnp coming to Ireland (1 Viewer)

[mac warzonescum]

I really can't imagine a racist Irishman ever being seen to side or even confer with a British nationalist and loyalist.

I believe, but am not sure, that I have seen them confer on Stormfront. Remember - according to them, all white folks are the same race and that over-rides any 'petty' squabbles they may have had in the past.

 

[mac warzonescum]

The best way to stop the far-right from getting organised and gaining strength is probably violence. It's the easiest way by far for getting things done. It's also the most braindead thing anyone can do, especially people who may like to think that they believe in world peace. If they hand out flyers, then we hand out flyers. If they rally, we rally. I know a good few of us have been in a position where we'd get the shit kicked out of us for our hair, clothes, piercings or whatever. I know that it made me feel more determined to keep doing what I was doing instead of backing down. Don't you think the same applies to them?

I'm assuming that the first sentence of that paragraph is not to be taken at face value, given what follows.

Substitue "loyalists" or "nationalists" for "the far-right" and see how the scenario plays out...

 

[yames]

Yes some say that, but others still squabble. I strongly recommend the 'White Singles' section and the thread of photographs. There's 800 postings, but it's worth it. It contains a photo of a Dublin woman btw.

 

[W.]

irish politics is full of sectarianism and in-fighting, it would seem. The far-right in ireland are no exception, in fact they seem to be more into it than anyone else - 6 months of reading stormfront has taught me this.

 

[jillface]

i know im kinda breakin the flow of things but is it actually illegal to have anarchist material or was that pig just being a cunt?
and is that band no remorse or my remorse a nazi band?
awfully confused....please explain?

No, No Remorse are the "nationalist rock" band and My Remorse, who changed their name from No Remorse, are the "emotional rock" band from Cork. Played GZ with Faultline a little while ago.

 

[the strange guy]

I'm assuming that the first sentence of that paragraph is not to be taken at face value, given what follows.

It was late, I meant that it's the easiest way to get things done in the short-term. I'm not advocating violence, but I understand why people do think this way; I just think they're wrong.

 

[falsemonkey]

lyncher has a point, as does chomsky.
it comes down to what's more important to us, civil liberties under capitalism or stopping fascism.

although talking of censorship under the current system is laughable - everything we are told is censored and biased..

...

Did you not just remove a thread from your public forum here, hence censoring what people do and do-not see on here? I assume the reason you removed it was because you don't like the person who posted it and/or don't like their bands.

Is it not hypocritcal to say you support free speech even as far to say that a rascist fuck can speek, yet delete what someone else was speaking simply because you don't like them?

I am not saying you shouldn't have deleted that post, just that you seem to be contradicting yourself and not practicing what you preach.

Aight.

 

[Problematic]

not the same thing at all, he`s not preventing them from doing whatever they want but it`s his forum so doesn`t have to give space to something he doesn`t like.

 

[W.]

i didnt remove it i put it in the upcoming gigs thread.

you fucking sheep

 

[wierd sister]

"If they hand out flyers, then we hand out flyers. If they rally, we rally. I know a good few of us have been in a position where we'd get the shit kicked out of us for our hair, clothes, piercings or whatever. I know that it made me feel more determined to keep doing what I was doing instead of backing down. Don't you think the same applies to them? "

What you propose is essentially a reactionary stance against them ie. wait until they do somethimg and then emulate their tactics with our own propaganda. I would be more inclined towards the more pro-active 'pre-emptive' strike if you will. You could have a point about fuelling their determination, but at the same time I would rather they felt like they couldn't go out in public with their beliefs for fear of their lives.

 

[falsemonkey]

i didnt remove it i put it in the upcoming gigs thread.

you fucking sheep

In that case sorry. I wasn't having a go, its your forum. if i don't like it i know where to go.

!bog

Was just a thought though,

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but Chomsky wrote a foreword in some right wing fascist book, advocating free speech. Can't remeber what it is called, dammit. I'm sure someone will know.

P.S. Sheep can't type

 

[W.]

I would rather they felt like they couldn't go out in public with their beliefs for fear of their lives.

i wouldnt like to live in a world where people are scared to go out in public for fear of their lives, no matter how warped their beliefs are.

(yes- i am aware of my stabbing of faces comment b4 anyone says anything but i think you will find i asked should we stab faces not declared i was going to. Im still undecided on this issue of free speach for nazis i really feel it depends what they're doing - debating is fine.. i feel that countering their actions in a "reactionary" way is also essentially a good idea.)

 

[the strange guy]

...but at the same time I would rather they felt like they couldn't go out in public with their beliefs for fear of their lives.

This is the kind of shite I'm talking about. Sometimes I don't know if this 'anti-fascist by force' movement is as much saving people as much as hating nazis. Wanting to protect people from violent acts is one thing, but desiring to instill fear and asserting your domination over an unintelligent group of people *with* violence is another. People have a right to express themselves and their thoughts freely, but you propose that you crush a small group physically and destroy them mentally because you don't agree with them. That can't work.

Take this whole thread as an example. Imagine if, say, pete decided to ban me Weeler or Phil decided to lock this thread because they felt I was saying things they strongly disgreed with; it would be totally ridiculous. Or an even wilder suggestion, that tommorow the Dáil ruled that any online forums which could be deemed in favour of a complete removal of the status-quo (Eirecore, Stormfront, Indymedia) and the installment of a radically new system should be banned because of the affect it they may have on 'weak minded individuals'; of course we would be up in arms over it.

Censorship does not work. It goes against everything I believe in and flies in the face of common sense. 'Pre-emptive strikes' may be all well and good, if they do not include censorship or violence. Think more along the lines of intelligence gathering and better communication with the enemy's target audience. Only getting up off your arse when racists make public speeches may be more instantly gratifying than writing flyers, paying for them and distributing them in areas you'd rather not be. It would have a better effect. It would also be more expensive, time-consuming and dangerous. If everyone who'll gather outside Trinity for this debate intent on its cancellation did this instead, we'd get more done to advance our cause; but lets face it - they want blood, an eye for an eye and still they can't see the hypocrisy of this fact.

 

[Corm]

This is the kind of shite I'm talking about. Sometimes I don't know if this 'anti-fascist by force' movement is as much saving people as much as hating nazis. Wanting to protect people from violent acts is one thing, but desiring to instill fear and asserting your domination over an unintelligent group of people *with* violence is another. People have a right to express themselves and their thoughts freely, but you propose that you crush a small group physically and destroy them mentally because you don't agree with them. That can't work.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I don't rule out the 'anti-fascist by force' movement is because of how I'd imagine it feels to be an immigrant or refugee or any victim of racism when confronted either physically or with the rhetoric of these white power, BNP, etc types. How I'd imagine it to be is scared, intimidated, bullied etc. Dunno about the rest of you but in every school bar the one I did 5th & 6th year in I was bullied, pretty badly at times, and an extension of this was being cut with a knife by 4 nazis in Croatia because of the way I looked, and that's the clostest thing I can equate it to. In school it would have made (and did, at times) a difference if someone else or a number of others stood up to the bullies and said they weren't willing to put up with this either, even if it wasn't they personally who were the target. If the situation was reversed, and I was the immigrant or refugee for whom racism from the natives of a different race towards me was a daily issue, I would feel a lot happier in knowing and visibly seeing and realising that natives of that country thought this was bullshit and were willing to physically fight back against those would would physically assault them & me because of appearance, when the easiest thing in the world for them is to turn their back on it.

Racism just makes me so fucking angry. Last night cycling home from practice at about 1am I was going up Grafton Street. Some of you are probably familiar with the oriental lady (excuse my ignorance in not knowing what country she's from) who busks/performs there; she sometimes plays a guitar-like instrument and sings, or dances with paper fans to music she plays from a stereo, and has sign saying something like "I Hope I've Made Your Day A Little Bit Brighter" or something. Most people snigger going past her but I think its really nice and that its cool that she doesn't give a fuck despite the sniggers and laughs and keeps on doing it; pretty punk in my book. Anyway, I heard shouting further up the street and saw a horse-drawn carriage stopped at the side and lots of drunken shouting and laughing. As I came up to where that was going on it pulled away slowly with a load of drunken "lads" in it shouting and roaring and laughing and pointing at this woman who I described above, who was standing with her stuff where she'd evidently been busking, and she was all wet and dripping and looked really shocked and upset. I asked a disgusted-looking guy who was standing nearby what had happened, expecting to be told they'd thrown beer at her or something... One of them had gotten the carriage to stop, stood up, and pissed on her, while all his mates looked on laughing. What the fuck? There were other (white, male) buskers on the street both further up and down the street from her; this didn't happen to them. I believe it was because she was different. Thinking about it later, I reckon that if it had been me, or one of my friends, I would at have maybe been a bit pissed off and seeked retribution, or if it was someone indistinguishable from the usual nightclub-hordes I would have thought it was abit shitty on them, but in both cases I would have thought it was funny later on. This wasn't funny. It was blatantly aimed at her, not at some random person. It just made me so fuckin angry. I shouted shit at them and they just laughed; would it have been wrong of me to follow them and throw shit at them or confront them with what they were doing, if I wasn't on my own and likely to just be beaten up? I don't know, but that's what it made me feel like doing.

 

[the strange guy]

Being bullied and being abused leads to a cycle in which the victim becomes the bully or abuser. You have to when to stop the cycle of violence and that usually begins with realising it has to stop with *YOU*. Revenge is an ugly concept, and I've been guilty of doing it before as I'm sure most people have, but I try not to do it. Another time, another place, I'd be out with knives looking for nazis to stab or pigs to fuck rocks at, but that won't achieve anything. Nothing can change what happened but you can have a say in what happens in the future. Being filled with hate towards those who resemble people who've done you wrong in the past results in nothing but more anger and pain. It's good to talk about it because it can relieve tension and pent up anger, and its more productive than taking it out on the nearest nazi or approved 'target'.

About those cunts fucking pissing on that woman, I understand why that made you upset, but I don't understand why you approve force but didn't show any. I think it's good you didn't, but you feel you should have. Shouting at the perpetrators would be better than getting yourself and others hurt, but you didn't say in your story if you even went over to the woman and asked if she was ok. My point I've been trying to make is that maybe if people concentrate on helping the victims and trying to understand *why* people do this (as opposed to spending time and effort on running after the attackers physically everytime they make themselves known) then more can be achieved. Had I been in the same situation I'd have made sure that the woman was ok before running after the pissheads and perhaps ask them why they did it, but I'd avoid violence at all costs. I doubt handing them a flyer or trying to talk to them would work in this situation, but neither would trying to take them all on. The answer doesn't lie in having a vigilante gang, but in trying to source their compulsion to do things like that.

 

[Problematic]

Corm, yes that happening to that woman is fucked up and you justifibly wanted to knock shit out of them, I would too. The difference is that was not about free speech, it was drunken nasty racists actually physically impinging on somebodys right to go about their business without interference. I will defend anybodys right to say what they want to but when it comes to them actually physically fucking with somebody then they need to be dealt with in the same manner. I was in no way advocating pacifism in my earlier posts, I just don`t think you can start choosing who does and doesnt get to have the right to express their opinions.

 

[Blackenedflag]

http://http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98528

 

[Blackenedflag]

http://http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98528

that should be :
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98528

 

[subbuteo !]

"I will defend anybodys right to say what they want"
so you defend his right to incite voilence and hatered .thats nice

Originally Posted by the strange guy
I really can't imagine a racist Irishman ever being seen to side or even confer with a British nationalist and loyalist.
Originally Posted by the strange guy
"The notion that the British National Party will consider this debate as an opportunity to gain support in Ireland is ridiculous. They despise Paddys and the Republic. As far as I can see it's a trap the BNP is walking into. They cannot possibly win a debate promoting British racism in an Irish university."
i cant remember the exact words but in a letter from the bnp to the icp
offering them any type of surrport they should need."because alot of our members are of irish decent and are worried about what is happening
in their home land."

Originally Posted by the strange guy

"His main target is disaffected working class youths, not rich-kid intellectuals." im sure they only want surrport from working class youth ,or maybe they want surport from any where they can get it.the bnps biggest financal backers are disaffected working class youth im sure


"he's taking part in a debate in a university. If it's a debate, there will be another side opposing him in. It's just as easy for that side to know their shit and make the bnp look like a joke."

this is a guy that that has been running around orcastrating race riots you think his here for a good debate or for the respectability that come with the invite?

"So basically you`re all for freedom of intellectual thought and expression as long as it is in agreement with you. Who exactly is the fascist ??"

i think the way you just through the fascist tag on people so easaly shows your ingroance of the ideology that is fascism.


and just one other thing i find strange over the past few weeks people from all over dublin have been imprisioned,finded and had their right to peaceful prostest denigned /free speech denigned and i dont remember seeing any posts /solidarity from the people who seem to be falling all over them selves to defend the rights of this scum.good to see where your priorties are.

 

[subbuteo !]

and just one other thing i find strange over the past few weeks people from all over dublin have been imprisioned,finded and had their right to peaceful prostest denigned /free speech denigned and i dont remember seeing any posts /solidarity from the people who seem to be falling all over them selves to defend the rights of this scum.good to see where your priorties are.[/QUOTE]just to make that clear im talking about the bin tax protesters