bnp coming to Ireland (3 Viewers)

[nooleen]

although talking of censorship under the current system is laughable - everything we are told is censored and biased..
...

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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[oh shit]

"Nazi's" have indeed been around since and long after the end of WW2. They STILL are around. They might have different names, titles or uniform, but rest assured they are still here, and have real power.

The "nazi" and in general "fascist" way/philosophy/system/whatever, was and STILL is common in many cultures existing today, maybe not in your Irish life, but elsewhere. It has power and dominance.

What do you think Bosnia was and IS all about?

or indeed the US foreign policy of the past 58 years.

why is fascism the only unacceptable form of totalitarianism and repression? there are plenty more. there is no such thing as international democracy, for example.

the BNP don't call themselves 'fascist' either. you've put that on them.

you've said, i read these guys are supposed to be fascist, therefore they should not be allowed to speak, because fascists are unique in that they shall be denied freedom of speech, cos they are intolerable.

makes no sense to me.

 

[Blackenedflag]

If this was a rally or public speach I'd have very different opinions, but this guy isnt speaking to a crowd of a couple of thousand, he's taking part in a debate in a university. If it's a debate, there will be another side opposing him in. It's just as easy for that side to know their shit and make the bnp look like a joke.

 

[subbuteo !]

or indeed the US foreign policy of the past 58 years.

why is fascism the only unacceptable form of totalitarianism and repression? there are plenty more. there is no such thing as international democracy, for example.

the BNP don't call themselves 'fascist' either. you've put that on them.

you've said, i read these guys are supposed to be fascist, therefore they should not be allowed to speak, because fascists are unique in that they shall be denied freedom of speech, cos they are intolerable.

makes no sense to me.

"the BNP don't call themselves 'fascist' either. you've put that on them."
no but once upon a time they did before they took their lead from the french front national and went all respect able.just like no remorse call them selves nationalist rock.....not nazi bastards .thats just a term i've put on them

believe me they are fascists... im not worried about them taking away my free speech its the genocide that follows it im worried about so you can all defend their right to free speech i 'll defend my right to live . this isn't intolerance its simple self defence. facism doesn't start with gas chambers thats where it ends.

 

[Blackenedflag]

facism doesn't start with gas chambers thats where it ends.

Good point.

 

[Problematic]

"believe me they are fascists... im not worried about them taking away my free speech its the genocide that follows it im worried about so you can all defend their right to free speech i 'll defend my right to live . this isn't intolerance its simple self defence. facism doesn't start with gas chambers thats where it ends"


So basically you`re all for freedom of intellectual thought and expression as long as it is in agreement with you. Who exactly is the fascist ??

 

[subbuteo !]

"believe me they are fascists... im not worried about them taking away my free speech its the genocide that follows it im worried about so you can all defend their right to free speech i 'll defend my right to live . this isn't intolerance its simple self defence. facism doesn't start with gas chambers thats where it ends"


So basically you`re all for freedom of intellectual thought and expression as long as it is in agreement with you. Who exactly is the fascist ??

So basically YOUR for freedom of intellectual thought and expression as long as it is in agreement with you. Who exactly is the fascist ??

 

[the strange guy]

Alright you right-on cunts.
Where do you draw the line at your censorship? The extreme right, where they advocate violence and the expulsion of the foreign invaders and their sympathisers or the extreme left, where they advocate violence and the expulsion of the enemies of the people and their sympathisers? Why stop at shutting up nazis, when you can nail up churches or sabotage television and radio masts? It's good that you feel you need to protect people from other people's thoughts and ideas; but you don't help them by sticking your fingers in their ears. You help them by letting them hear all options. This is a debate, not a rally. Assuming the opposition aren't braindead, they will win the debate. This is obvious. This guy talks nothing but shit. The audience will understand this as the debate unfolds, unless they are not open to new ideas, in which case they're a lost cause.

I'm sure noone here thinks I actually sympathise with this cunt. I've been beaten up countless times in Primary school because of my race (I started hitting back in secondary) . When I was living in Coolock, I had windows smashed in and shit posted through my letter box, which is pretty scary when you're 8 years old. Do you think these people did this because of who my father was, or do you think they did it because they were angry, upset and just fucking fed up with their lives? These people need to be able to talk or to to relate to someone. If they realised that the Chinese guy down the street isn't the guy who put them in their shitty situation but the whole fucking system, then I doubt they would have done that.

Will preventing an idiot speak in Trinity college of all places ensure that none of the above happens again? No. His main target is disaffected working class youths, not rich-kid intellectuals. If you want to make a difference, communicate and teach the people you feel need help and explain to them how *you* think. Silencing others is censorship, however you define it, and unless you see yourself as some moral guardian, or you've been appointed as such, then nothing gives you the right to tell people what they can or cannot hear, read or speak.

 

[the strange guy]

I forgot to add that I think that if you do feel so stongly about it, go and protest, but don't try and shut it down and try not to let other people shut it down.

 

[mac warzonescum]

I don't personally think that if Trinity were, for whatever reason, to decline to provide a platform for the speaker from the BNP that would count as censorship. He would still be free to say whatever he wants elsewhere, but he would not be granted the academic and political kudos that debating at Trinity would grant him.

Regardless of how the whole debate pans out, it will still be used to promote the BNP. The next time this speaker wants to promote himself and his party there will be another little line at the bottom of their political CV.... "has spoken in Ireland at Trinity".

Would it be sensible to request that Trinity decline to host the debate? The man would still be able to say what he likes where he likes, but it would not be tax-payers' and students' money which is financing him.

In my grubby little anarchist rulebook the above is not defined as censorship.

 

[the strange guy]

The notion that the British National Party will consider this debate as an opportunity to gain support in Ireland is ridiculous. They despise Paddys and the Republic. As far as I can see it's a trap the BNP is walking into. They cannot possibly win a debate promoting British racism in an Irish university.

 

[mac warzonescum]

The notion that the British National Party will consider this debate as an opportunity to gain support in Ireland is ridiculous. They despise Paddys and the Republic. As far as I can see it's a trap the BNP is walking into. They cannot possibly win a debate promoting British racism in an Irish university.

I believe they are more interested in using it to gain credibility than support. However, there are their sympathisers in Ireland, and I would not be surprised if they did not attempt to link up with them here.

I have seen little evidence that they despise Ireland or the Irish. Being a predominantly white nation I would be surprised if they did not see it in quite a positive light. The idea of them giving pointers to white nationalists in ireland on how to set up an Irish Nationalist Party does not conflict with the ideas they espouse.

Of course, the relative lack of incidents in Ireland which can be blamed on non-white immigrant populations removes one of their key strategies that they have exploited in the UK.

 

[the strange guy]

I really can't imagine a racist Irishman ever being seen to side or even confer with a British nationalist and loyalist. This isn't as straight forward as a BNP guy going over to see some French National Front guys.

Nationalism and racism go hand in hand, and unless this guy comes out in support of a 32 county republic (very unlikely), I doubt many Irish racists in the crowd will be entirely swayed by his argument unless the topic of NI is avoided completely.

 

[Problematic]

the BNP stance on Ireland is
"in the long run long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles"

From what I can see most Irish scumbag racists are not into this idea at all, and are very wary of the BN in general due to their links with loyalists.
That`s not to say that the BNP won`t help their Irish counterparts in setting up the Irish National Party, something with is currently underway.

 

[the strange guy]

If you want to stop something from going ahead which will harm the Irish people, try the Dáil down the road.

 

[mc moley]

i know im kinda breakin the flow of things but is it actually illegal to have anarchist material or was that pig just being a cunt?
and is that band no remorse or my remorse a nazi band?
awfully confused....please explain?

 

[Problematic]

yeah My Remorse are a Nazi band, the singer guy has even got one of those little, moustache things

 

[yames]

tight skirt no knickers

...and No Remorse were a peace-punk band from '82 on the Spiderleg label. They had a split 12" with Flux of Pink Indians.

 

[wierd sister]

I think that any anti-Irish racism the BNP had in the past (Irish arriving with begging bowls in hand etc) is now being totally played down, with BNP man, Nick Griffin speaking on Irish daytime radio only a few years ago. I'm sure that this developement is in no small part due to them seeing southern Ireland as a newly formed eligible recruiting ground in light of immigration in recent years. Anyone familiar with the stormfront website will know that the white nationalist community themselves are largely divided (as usual) on the issue of the BNP's views on the Irish/Ireland, and loyalist-combat 18 links. Its worth noting that in Ireland (and other countries such as Basque, Palestine) nationalism doesn't always equate with racism (more of an idealogy in which anti-imperialist anger can be vented), and I have seen Sinn Feiners on anti-fascist marches/demos before. I'm wandering a bit here, but I have something to say to people who are concerned with those who would prevent fascists from gaining a position of power in this country by any means necessary, and are wondering "where does it end, are you going to start nailing up churches and attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you". If you are content to stand outside the building where a fascist is being given the opportunity to air their views, then where does it end? When they get strong enough to start rallying/marching,handing out leaflets in public etc (which they will if the problem is ignored), will you still be so concerned about their freedom of speech that you will let them continue unimpeded? Most anarchist/punk-related people in Europe I am acquainted with have adopted a no-platform for fascists idealogy out of necessity, the threat from fascists over there being quite real. We have it relatively easy over here, and it would be nice if it could stay that way.

 

[the strange guy]

Republicans are meant to be left wing, that's why Sinn Fein have an anti-racist stance, but I was referring more to kids/eejits who spraypaint 'IRA' beside 'Niggers Out' than 40 year old men who sing the Fields of Athenry every night in the pub after a night of anti-Brit chat. A racist is more likely to be republican than a republican is to be racist, if ya get me.

I'm not saying anyone should ignore the problem of fascists gaining strength. The point I was trying to make is that the debate in a college should go ahead, not that we never have to do anything again. That's jumping the gun totally. The Irish far-right is a splintered and fractured scene, but I'm not doubting the possibility they could get organised. I just think that if two people agree to a debate, then that is the best way to sort out these disagreements. Ensuring the debate does not happen will gain us absolutely nothing, yet it will give the BNP the satisfaction that they've caused a real stir in Ireland and will attempt to do so again. Letting this guy enter the debate and lose should have an opposite effect.

The best way to stop the far-right from getting organised and gaining strength is probably violence. It's the easiest way by far for getting things done. It's also the most braindead thing anyone can do, especially people who may like to think that they believe in world peace. If they hand out flyers, then we hand out flyers. If they rally, we rally. I know a good few of us have been in a position where we'd get the shit kicked out of us for our hair, clothes, piercings or whatever. I know that it made me feel more determined to keep doing what I was doing instead of backing down. Don't you think the same applies to them?