Alternative Medicine (2 Viewers)

[1000smurfs]

For muscle\joint pain i would recommend an osteopath.
I had a weird headache (caused by a nerve problem in the neck) for about a year that went away after one or two sessions and never came back.
It's kind of like massage , gentler than physio and chiropracty.

It's more complimentary than alternative i would say.

 

[ITalkShite]

In descending order of bullshittery:

- Conventional medicine - not bullshit
- Acupuncture - not bullshit
- Herbalism - not bullshit, but has a serious amount of quacks and snake-oil merchants
- Crystals, chakras, light healing, ley lines, auras - total bullshit
- Homeopathy - biggest con of all; total and utter bullshit hippy nonsense

 

[Franco]

Anyone know of any good witch doctors?

 

[broken arm]

 

[MDR]

Are homeopaths like pedestrian cycle lanes for gays?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Are homeopaths like pedestrian cycle lanes for gays?

all the good work on the Love Sprouts in Brussels post undone

 

[Mormon Nailer]

In descending order of bullshittery:

- Conventional medicine - not bullshit
- Acupuncture - not bullshit
- Herbalism - not bullshit, but has a serious amount of quacks and snake-oil merchants
- Crystals, chakras, light healing, ley lines, auras - total bullshit
- Homeopathy - biggest con of all; total and utter bullshit hippy nonsense

That about sums it up for me.

It's a pity that the bullshit artists working in the crystals, energy type areas make the stuff that actually does work look suspect by association.

 

[Pedronimus]

Have you got a link to any such information? Not arguing with you. I'm just interested to read about tests and their results.

I don't have any specific links to hand. If you look up www.randi.org and poke around his website you'll find relevant links. also www.quackwatch.org.

Its along time since I last read up on this stuff. i have pages of stuff printed out at home. If I can dig anything out over the next few days I will.

Shouldn't the drugs that the patient tried initially also have had the same placebo effect? Are you saying that someone's cat switched to a more positive mental attitude and that resulted in it's healing?

I'm not getting into a debate about whether someone's cat got better from taking homeopathic remedies. Life is short enough as it is.

Look you can take my word, or the word of conventional science, trials by pharmaceuticals, and trials by governments and universities. Science is self correcting and constantly re-evaluating itself. Claims are tested in paper after paper. Homeopathy is a fraud.

I am also not defending how the pharmaceutical industry operates, I am currently working on a project in one and I despise the place.

 

[magicbastarder]

- Acupuncture - not bullshit

there have been mixed results on clinical trials, as far as i know - acupuncture seems to work on several ailments, but not all it claims to treat.

 

[broken arm]

Look you can take my word, or the word of conventional science, trials by pharmaceuticals, and trials by governments and universities. Science is self correcting and constantly re-evaluating itself. Claims are tested in paper after paper. Homeopathy is a fraud.

I am also not defending how the pharmaceutical industry operates, I am currently working on a project in one and I despise the place.

you see, this is the basis of a fraud in conventional medicine. It has a perceived scientific integrity (which is true in much R&D) but the reality of the structure and practice of the pharamceutical industry is anything but.

the industry has developed a level of trust which it exploits.

I'm trying to differentiate the science from the business....

 

[therealjohnny]

Anyone know of any good witch doctors?

these guys might

 

[Pedronimus]

you see, this is the basis of a fraud in conventional medicine. It has a perceived scientific integrity (which is true in much R&D)

It has a vastly greater scientific integrity than homeopathy. Of course if is open to perversion when money is involved. but the drugs themselves and methods used to create these drugs are constantly being evaluated. Yes drugs can be found to cause other ailments, but they get reevaluated and withdrawn(eventually), yes drugs are needlessly prescribed. But there are barriers which attempt prevent these things, FDA, scientific journals, 10 year training for doctors. But of course bad things happen.

The original poster asked for advice on homeopathy(and other things) my intention was to inform anyone interested as to how these things are made. Anyone can make homeopathic drugs, and sell them. Any doctor who prescribes them is either doing it for dubious financial gain or has a very poor scientific understanding. There is no doubting that a homeopath will generally spend more time listening to a patients problem and are more caring and patient may feel more positive after a visit. This is something proper doctors need to take note of. But this is not a reason to conclude that homeopathy works. It doesn't.

 

[Pedronimus]

http://altmed.creighton.edu/Homeopathy/science/efficacy.htm
http://altmed.creighton.edu/Homeopathy/placebo_effect.htm

 

[broken arm]

But this is not a reason to conclude that homeopathy works. It doesn't.

that is an interesting point because I have become more aware of the low level of care from many GP's on the NHS over here (probably due to time pressures and adminstrative burdens, overuse of a 'free' service etc etc) BUT you can get homeopathy on the NHS and there are 5 NHS homeopathic hospitals in the UK. I'm not sure what appraisals went into the establishment of these hospitals but as far as I can tell NICE have not fully approved or endorsed them.

seems strange. unless there was a decision that in the case of many ailments over medication was worse that placebo???

 

[Pedronimus]

I'm not sure what appraisals went into the establishment of these hospitals but as far as I can tell NICE have not fully approved or endorsed them.

I can't say I know much about it myself, I haven't read up on alternative medicine/hospitals in a long time.

 

[eoghan_dubhdara]

i got talking to a homeopath down in leitrim fest this year. he gave me a one small pill for my warts, and most of them seemed to have disappeared. it made my body speed up like acid and skill reproducyion. have heard great things bout acupuncuture which you can get free with a medical card

 

[killy kill]

I'm a homeopath who specialises in dermatology remedies, got talkin to this smelly cunt at leechrum this year, sold him a pep pill for 50 snots, he came back later on beggin for more while he was tearin the warts off his mickey. Nice lad

 

[billygannon]

Homeopathy strikes me as something that treats symptoms rather than actually curing the original problem.
But it has worked for people - otherwise it wouldn't have survived for 200 years.

It's fine as a complimentary treatment for ailments. Ultimately you're trying to cure an illness... so if it's not going to hurt you, then why not? I mean if it's serious you'd be stupid not to use conventional medicine - but using alternative remedies is worth it.

As for claiming that it's a placebo - well, as far as I understand, there are huge number of placebos sitting on shelves in chemists. I'm thinking of a lot of cold and flu remedies and certainly most vitamin boosters.
Indeed, the placebo effect is one of the great scientific mysteries.

 

[ITalkShite]

Homeopathy strikes me as something that treats symptoms rather than actually curing the original problem.
But it has worked for people - otherwise it wouldn't have survived for 200 years.

Alchemy survived for thousands of years. Phrenology had a good couple of hundred. It didn't make them right. Same for homeopathy.

It's fine as a complimentary treatment for ailments. Ultimately you're trying to cure an illness... so if it's not going to hurt you, then why not? I mean if it's serious you'd be stupid not to use conventional medicine - but using alternative remedies is worth it.

The world is full of stupid people. If nonsense starts becoming legitimised as medical fact, then medicine is avoiding its primary duty of not doing harm. To stick just with homeopathy, rather than the entire field of alternative and complementary treatments: If, for example, someone's doctor allows them to attempt to cure a cancer with hippywater, then that's criminal negligence on the part of the doctor. That's the obvious final point of the logic of using things because they are "not going to hurt you" whilst simultaneously regarding them as medicine.

As for claiming that it's a placebo - well, as far as I understand, there are huge number of placebos sitting on shelves in chemists. I'm thinking of a lot of cold and flu remedies and certainly most vitamin boosters.
Indeed, the placebo effect is one of the great scientific mysteries.

On the contrary, it's one of the most well-researched phenomena in science. Dive in.

 

[RSJ]

The world is full of stupid people. If nonsense starts becoming legitimised as medical fact, then medicine is avoiding its primary duty of not doing harm. To stick just with homeopathy, rather than the entire field of alternative and complementary treatments: If, for example, someone's doctor allows them to attempt to cure a cancer with hippywater, then that's criminal negligence on the part of the doctor.

True fact: The first time i ever referred to something as "horseshit" was when told about an American dude who claims to have cured his own cancer using homoeopathic remedies. "Total bollocks" didn't seem to stand out enough to be effective.