Ireland (4 Viewers)

[therealjohnny]

All my teachers smelled of fags and despair. They wore Dunnes jumpers with holes in them and drove rust bucket cars held together with ropes.
It wasn't an inspiring time.

 

[chris d]

Haha.

School sucked.

Good times though.

 

[egg_]

PS - I don't much place emphasis on individual teachers. Kids have to do their own work not the teachers
who are there largely to make sure the kids are doing their work in my experience.

Are you going off your memory of having been in school yourself 30 years ago?

In my experience you're dead wrong on this. A good teacher actually teaches you things that you can't figure out on your own - that's the whole point. I've seen massive differences in how engaged my own kids are with different subjects, and how well they understand them, based on how good the teachers are

 

[JohnnyRaz]

All my teachers smelled of fags and despair. They wore Dunnes jumpers with holes in them and drove rust bucket cars held together with ropes.
It wasn't an inspiring time.

yeah - my dad was a primary school teacher. you describe it well
we actually had a car that was made from two wrecked cars welded together by my uncle at one point..

 

[nuke terrorist]

Are you going off your memory of having been in school yourself 30 years ago?

In my experience you're dead wrong on this. A good teacher actually teaches you things that you can't figure out on your own - that's the whole point. I've seen massive differences in how engaged my own kids are with different subjects, and how well they understand them, based on how good the teachers are

Unfortunately the curriculum in my experience 30+ year ago didn't allow a lot of time for anything other than preparing for exams.

Here's a few things that didnt happen then but should have:

1) By 20 years ago I was very concerned about what I called 'Relationship perimission /No Means No' issues and thought it was very important that these concepts were presented to kids aged no older than 12 even prior to any sex education (there is usually a gap between relationships becoming part of kids lives and sex stuff which happens a bit later).
So if I was a teacher circa 2003 I'd have volunteered to come up with some kind of consent classes as a duty of care.
It took a long time after that for consent classes to become the norm.
I still think consent is by far the most important part of sex education and if kids get that right they should be OK.


2) Concepts not being properly explained and understood as a essential part of the curriculum:

History is the best example of this.
Every time a big idea comes into a history class the teacher should stop dead and start asking the class questions and writing bulletin points on the board to make sure the kids understand what Capitalism / Colonialism / Civil Rights / Feminism / Marxism / Totalitarianism / and any other -ISM is.
e.g.
'The Scramble for Africa'...

What is colonialism?
Is it an equal relationship?
is the culture of the colonised people respected?
How Is technology a factor?
Is religion a party to colonialism?
Has colonialism happened in Europe?
Has it happened in Ireland?
How does this affect the lives of the people?
How does colonialism end?
Does colonialism still happen and what are its long term effects?
Who writes the history of colonialism - the colonised or the colonisers?

Hopefully after the teacher does this a few times with different concepts the kids will understand that these ideas are past, present and future. Comprehending this will give you the tools to analyse any situation where it occurs.

A really good teacher needs to do this all the time - but is there enough time?
There was so little detail already in secondary school history classes (in my experience anyway).


3) Children need to be told what their rights are from a young age.

As soon as children are old enough - certainly young-ish primary school age - this needs to be on the curriculum.

What are rights?
They are non negotiable and everyone should have equal rights.
Rights should be explained to kids on their level and they should be given literature for reference that should always be available to them.
Good communication is essential and no one should be allowed use a child's ignorance, innocence or lack of experience against them.
Everyone especially adults is accountable for their actions and kids need to know their is always help and there should be a neutral supportive process if they are mistreated.

I doubt any government is keen on doing this at this point - I wonder why...

All of this is pretty simple stuff. Maybe there are lots of nice people out there doing these things for decades.
Respect and good communication is really important to me - It was very lacking a few decades ago.

 

[Deadmanposting]

Got a kid in my family that is great at everything in school.
But his Dad hates Irish, so he hates irish. Tells himself a story about how he can't get it.
Blindingly obvious where it's coming from.
Everyone in the house blames the government and how Irish is taught.
I stay out of it. But obviously, I have opinions.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Got a kid in my family that is great at everything in school.
But his Dad hates Irish, so he hates irish. Tells himself a story about how he can't get it.
Blindingly obvious where it's coming from.
Everyone in the house blames the government and how Irish is taught.
I stay out of it. But obviously, I have opinions.

I'd agree with you.. I think parental attitudes are a big part

with Irish I'd say a good 25% of people in this country rightly or wrongly think Irish is a complete waste of time in schools - and this includes some of the teachers, and there's another chunk who would question the value of it being mandatory in primary and secondary school (including many teachers I've met over the years).

This filters into a) how its taught in schools (lack of enthusiasm), and b) the reinforcement of its value at home.

But to my knowledge - there's never been a real debate about Irish been mandatory. if it was optional (at least in secondary school) you might have fewer people having a minimal capacity in the language, and more engaging with it more enthusiastically as its something they have an interest or aptitude for.

Teaching methods do have a role as well... my 5 year old is currently being taught irish by a glove puppet, and he's lapping it up and pestering me to teach him more words and phrases, getting irish kids books from the library etc. Far from how I was taught Irish at that age...

(preparing to be called a self-hating free-state colonialized- minded west-brit for the rest of the day for parts of the above)

 

[egg_]

Unfortunately the curriculum in my experience 30+ year ago didn't allow a lot of time for anything other than preparing for exams

So yes, you are basing your opinions on education solely on your experience from 30+ years ago.

 

[Deadmanposting]

I'd agree with you.. I think parental attitudes are a big part

with Irish I'd say a good 25% of people in this country rightly or wrongly think Irish is a complete waste of time in schools - and this includes some of the teachers, and there's another chunk who would question the value of it being mandatory in primary and secondary school (including many teachers I've met over the years).

This filters into a) how its taught in schools (lack of enthusiasm), and b) the reinforcement of its value at home.

But to my knowledge - there's never been a real debate about Irish been mandatory. if it was optional (at least in secondary school) you might have fewer people having a minimal capacity in the language, and more engaging with it more enthusiastically as its something they have an interest or aptitude for.

Teaching methods do have a role as well... my 5 year old is currently being taught irish by a glove puppet, and he's lapping it up and pestering me to teach him more words and phrases, getting irish kids books from the library etc. Far from how I was taught Irish at that age...

(preparing to be called a self-hating free-state colonialized- minded west-brit for the rest of the day for parts of the above)

Sounds like a super kid you got there

I'm just amazed by how much this kid picks up from his Dad.
Dad doesn't eat this, kid won't eat it either.
Dad likes this movie, kid loves it.
I know this isn't a secret, but watching it play out is fascinating.

I have a probably unpopular opinion, that if you don't like sprouts, but you love your child, then you have to eat sprouts in front of them.
Sprouts are an example.


Obviously the people that know most about proper parenting are childless adults.

 

[egg_]

Teaching methods do have a role as well... my 5 year old is currently being taught irish by a glove puppet, and he's lapping it up and pestering me to teach him more words and phrases, getting irish kids books from the library etc. Far from how I was taught Irish at that age...

Prepare for a big change when your 5-year old goes to Big School. I think the standard of Irish as taught in school has declined a lot over the years. I got a B in Irish in the leaving in 1989, my eldest got a H3 which is more-or-less equivalent in her leaving in 2023 - when I left school I was well able carry on a conversation Irish, she wouldn't have a hope

As for parental buy-in ... I'm sure there's some influence from parents, but in my house both my kids were utterly dismissive of science and technology despite me being a techie with a Physics degree, and their Mam being a working biologist with a Ph.D.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Prepare for a big change when your 5-year old goes to Big School. I think the standard of Irish as taught in school has declined a lot over the years. I got a B in Irish in the leaving in 1989, my eldest got a H3 which is more-or-less equivalent in her leaving in 2023 - when I left school I was well able carry on a conversation Irish, she wouldn't have a hope

As for parental buy-in ... I'm sure there's some influence from parents, but in my house both my kids were utterly dismissive of science and technology despite me being a techie with a Physics degree, and their Mam being a working biologist with a Ph.D.

I might be misunderstanding your kids opinions...

I think there's a slight difference - in that the argument/attitude from parents irish is not based on interest, but value/utility.

you mightn't be interested in science or tech, but you wouldn't question its core value (unless your kids are luddites!)

 

[Deadmanposting]

Government probably would have gotten away with their Irish education policy, were it not for those damn kids

 

[Kermit McDermott]

I never had much interest in learning another language. I did french in first year in 1988. Hated it. I think it was having to put on the affectations. Don't regret it. Bloody frogs.

 

[Deadmanposting]

I never had much interest in learning another language. I did french for one term in 1988. Hated it
Still feel the same.

It's a major string to your bow while traveling.
And can defo help with getting the ride.

Any learned skill is.

I personally hate being the single language dummy when I'm visiting with proper Europeans and they're all switching effortlessly between languages

 

[Kermit McDermott]

It's a major string to your bow while traveling.
And getting the ride.

Any skill is.

I personally hate being the single language dummy when I'm visiting with proper Europeans and they're all switching effortlessly between languages

Yeah, fair enough.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

It's a major string to your bow while traveling.
And can defo help with getting the ride.

Any learned skill is.

I personally hate being the single language dummy when I'm visiting with proper Europeans and they're all switching effortlessly between languages

I had probably better conversational (and a little bit of reading/writing) spanish after hanging round with spaniards and some self study, than I did after been taught french for 5 years by two depressed cork men.

Getting the ride was a bit of a motivation, but being surrounded by the language as a living thing was a different experience.

I think the sheer amount of access to foreign language content (ie on netflix and similar) must make it a different experience than when I was learning it. I remember trying to tune into LW french services on the radio FFS

 

[egg_]

I never had much interest in learning another language. I did french in first year in 1988. Hated it. I think it was having to put on the affectations. Don't regret it. Bloody frogs.

They're not affectations you loon! That's just how you pronounce the words!

 

[Deadmanposting]

They're not affectations you loon! That's just how you pronounce the words!

I agree with you, but you do have to make a cognitive jump into sounding like a ponce when you speak French
And that's tougher at 18 than 48

 

[Kermit McDermott]

They're not affectations you loon! That's just how you pronounce the words!

Whatever it is. I felt like an ejit doing it.

 

[magicbastarder]

Prepare for a big change when your 5-year old goes to Big School. I think the standard of Irish as taught in school has declined a lot over the years. I got a B in Irish in the leaving in 1989, my eldest got a H3 which is more-or-less equivalent in her leaving in 2023 - when I left school I was well able carry on a conversation Irish, she wouldn't have a hope

As for parental buy-in ... I'm sure there's some influence from parents, but in my house both my kids were utterly dismissive of science and technology despite me being a techie with a Physics degree, and their Mam being a working biologist with a Ph.D.

fairly certain i've mentioned it here before, but i know a couple of gaelgoirs who hate how irish is taught in secondary school; it's taught as an 'intelligence' test, not a means of communication.
i remember our irish teacher at LC apologising to us for the sheer shitness of some of the prescribed prose we had to learn; it was embarrassingly bad.
another friend does not have fond memories of engaging with the department of education about curriculum reform in another subject. their main ideal is stasis, seemingly.