new liverpool thread - everyone loves them (4 Viewers)

[Hector Grey]

yeah, every point cost us, but if we'd beaten fucking stoke we'd have been champions. i'm not buying this "oh it was miles better than last year" crap. the only way it could actually be better than last year is if there was some points at the end of it. losing to stoke is shite. it's what shite liverpool do. i'm sick of shite liverpool.

 

[coast to coast]

yeah, every point cost us, but if we'd beaten fucking stoke we'd have been champions. i'm not buying this "oh it was miles better than last year" crap. the only way it could actually be better than last year is if there was some points at the end of it. losing to stoke is shite. it's what shite liverpool do. i'm sick of shite liverpool.

If my aunty had bollocks she'd be my uncle. We didn't beat Stoke and we knew that when we lost to Middlesboro, drew with Arsenal, drew with fucking Wigan, Fulham, West Ham.

Losing to stoke at the Brittania Stadium when they defend as well as that and make it as difficult as it is to win there is not shite. Shite Liverpool was last year, constantly giving up leads, putting in gutless away performances, not being able to pass the ball to one another, having no coherent plan, not even looking like they give a shit, buying a handful of abysmal, insipid, past-it journey men and giving them huge contracts, having a manager so bereft of understanding of the club itself, going out of business at a rate of knots by paying £30m on interest for some loans taken about by a couple of cowboy business men and having our name dragged through the mud in some Texas regional courthouse.

If you keep bitching and moaning about Liverpool this year every time they drop a point when they put in a good shift and are unlucky or let down by a bit of bad finishing, then you lose all credibility. It would seem logical that you just bitch and moan all the time regardless of what is happening.

I mean, FFS.

 

[oh shit]

still early days and we were unlucky not to get at least the second penalty shout, but at the same time it was not a good performance and supporters are allowed to discuss the team, it's not actually a cult. jordan henderson in particular had a shocker, he kept giving possession away and he totally fluffed it when through on the keeper. where I was watching it they had the chelski game on as well and i couldn't help start wondering about the wisdom of selling meireles on. he gave us something we lack - an attacking, dynamic and strong midfielder - and he did it better than gerrard has done in the last two seasons. i admire and support kenny's faith in the yoof, but it can be trying. plus that mohawk is fucking wicked.

selection wise we were limited by injuries to johnson and kelly, and so skrtl was at RB ahead of flanagan to stop stoke trying to bully our defence, but putting him behind henderson and kuyt on the right hand side made us look very slow and short of ideas. but then downing and enrique didn't have much joy on the left either though - that's just what stoke do, 7 bouncers in the box etc
it's just disheartening to see our 5 attacking players basically stand back and leave it to suarez to conjure something.

 

[Cormcolash]

Sack Kenny

 

[Hector Grey]

i thought andy c was bought for this kind of shit?

it's gonna be very tight for fourth thisyear, we can't afford to be dropping points where we shouldn't be dropping points. stoke didn't have any chances, apart from the poxy penalty. another question; is jamie c past it? i still think spurs and arse will drop points, and maybe it's a good thing to get a defeat out of the way early doors, but we can't be blaming refs for everything. the ref didn't miss henderson's sitter. or suarez'z. poor finishing isn't about luck, is it?

it's just unfourtunate that we can't enjoy this transition, and the yoof been given a chance and the prospect of suarez being a legend, because we need cl footy next season. getting points away from home is gonna be flipping crucial. it just goes to show how far away from the top we are.

p.s. i wasn't aware i had any credibility. cheers.

 

[maims bond]

i thought andy c was bought for this kind of shit?

it's gonna be very tight for fourth thisyear, we can't afford to be dropping points where we shouldn't be dropping points. stoke didn't have any chances, apart from the poxy penalty. another question; is jamie c past it? i still think spurs and arse will drop points, and maybe it's a good thing to get a defeat out of the way early doors, but we can't be blaming refs for everything. the ref didn't miss henderson's sitter. or suarez'z. poor finishing isn't about luck, is it?

it's just unfourtunate that we can't enjoy this transition, and the yoof been given a chance and the prospect of suarez being a legend, because we need cl footy next season. getting points away from home is gonna be flipping crucial. it just goes to show how far away from the top we are.

p.s. i wasn't aware i had any credibility. cheers.

The yoof coming through is all well and good but that takes time, Fergie could give seminars in that shit. I'm starting to think selling Meireles was a pretty big blunder. He's playing well for Chelsea and he can offer something not many others in the pool squad can. I know he put in a transfer request but i'd say there was a bit of brinkmanship on both sides.

And farming Jokehole out? Might that have been a mistake too???

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[Cormcolash]

Crisis

 

[billygannon]

4-0

Welcome to the land of sleeping giants.

 

[coast to coast]

Now, that, in comparison to Stoke, was not acceptable. Rubbish. Lack of desire, stupidity from Skrtel and Adam and a bad selection picking Skrtel at right back, though we are unfortunate to have two injuries at right-back and Carragher not willing/able to play there any more. Skrtel may have done okay in the last two games at right back but his only other previous outing, against a decent left-winger (Downing) a few years ago was as much of an unmitigated disaster as this one. That said, there's no excuse for how we started the game, which was mega sluggish. Extremely disappointing. It must be said, Spurs were quality and rightly put us to the sword once we were lacking numbers. Hopefully we'll get a big reaction in the next two games against Brighton and Wolves and put that right out of our system.

 

[Hector Grey]

picking skrtl may have been forced on kenny, not picking dirk to offer support against one of the quickest monekeyfaced cunts in the league was daft. it happened against sunderland too. henderson is not a right mid, and he doesn't offer cover for the right back. we need someone who's calm and can take the ball in and look for a pass. a meireles type player. or an aqualani.

bellamey should have gotten shot of the ball for the last one. that was unnecessary. am i right that the last time we lost that badly was against chelsea? i remember that cudicini had some game that night, and it was agonising. i'm not sure that we had a shot on target yesterday. and suarez was....well...what was he?

 

[Cormcolash]

Urgayan?

 

[maims bond]

Dagger out for a month. Bring back Hansen!

 

[oh shit]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/11/liverpool-tv-breakaway

so Ian Ayre is suggesting that the big clubs should re-negotiate the basis of TV revenues from 2013 when the current deal expires, so that they get a proportionate share of the money relative to the size of their asian/american/euro fanboy hordes.

this is utter bollocks. the last vestiges of competition in english football will be ruined. if anything I sort of hope it does happen and that the other clubs take it as the last straw and either refuse to play, or put out weakened teams against the 'big 4/5' whatever to make a mockery of it all. if anything that'll speed the development of a breakaway euro-big-club league for bankers and hedge fund managers anyway, and then maybe normal people can afford to go see their club again.

 

[Unicron]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/11/liverpool-tv-breakaway

so Ian Ayre is suggesting that the big clubs should re-negotiate the basis of TV revenues from 2013 when the current deal expires, so that they get a proportionate share of the money relative to the size of their asian/american/euro fanboy hordes.

this is utter bollocks. the last vestiges of competition in english football will be ruined. if anything I sort of hope it does happen and that the other clubs take it as the last straw and either refuse to play, or put out weakened teams against the 'big 4/5' whatever to make a mockery of it all. if anything that'll speed the development of a breakaway euro-big-club league for bankers and hedge fund managers anyway, and then maybe normal people can afford to go see their club again.

I believe that in order for that to happen 14 clubs in the PL would have to agree to ending the revenue sharing and you'd never get that many going for it. How many would this actually benefit? The Sky 4 of the last decade, City perhaps though despite the success that they're likely to have in the coming few years might not have the actual fanbase reach but the casual fan would want to watch winners.

I'd argue that the shared revenues have actaully helped Liverpool, and the rest of the league, stay in touch financially. For better or worse United have far and away been the top draw of the PL era and already hold a significant advantage commercially, they are hamstrung more than anyone by the collective TV deal. Individual bargaining would mean that United would get the biggest deal, they'd be in a position to pull even more ahead of everyone else.

 

[Hector Grey]

it looks to me like a reaction to man city's endless supply of oil dollars. it's the only way liverpool can actually earn enough money to keep up with city.

anyway, the idea that it would create some kind of divide is a laugh, that's already in place. the rest of the league already don't bother their holes when they go to old trafford. the league is dominated by one club, with two other clubs, owned by ultra, mega rich oligarchs, occasionally crashing the party. where's the equality in that, in any of it? unless liverpool start wining trophies on a yearly basis, and presenting a path of least resistance to the world's youth, the fan base already in place will diminish. so they've every right to exploit their world wide image as best they can. liverpool were man united, real madrid, barca big once upon a time. and there are fans, world wide, who remember that. time is running out though. after all, forest won more european cups than barca until 2006. and now.....

ultimately, i can't see it happening. the big lads like to rattle their sabres occasionally.

 

[Cormcolash]

I rattle my saber every night myself

 

[coast to coast]

Its a logical bargaining position for Liverpool to take up and surely they must be aware that it is unlikely to pass given that 14 of clubs would almost certainly suffer from it and so then not vote for it, however they are only looking after their own interest, which is surely their prerogative in an open market. The hand-wringing, Shankly-quoting and ad hominem attacks from Iain Macintosh on twitter I found highly annoying all the same. Fucking ludicrous pretending the business of football is in anyway socialist. For that to happen there would need to be UEFA-wide collective bargaining, stringent financial rules, salary caps, etc and dare the players to run off and play for Anzhi Makaklaklak and El Ain, etc rather than Bayern, Real, United, Barcelona, Inter, etc. Football is just symptomatic of society in general though, not apart from it. And as such we should just ask Germany to run it for everyone.

As for the competitiveness of the league: United have won it 13 years of the last 20, 4 of the last 5. Spanish football has always been historically less competitive given that Real Madrid were an established football superpower before such a thing existed in England. They have had far few winners historically than the English league. In the last 20 years, they have had the same amount of league winners as England in the same time period. (Arsenal, Blackburn, Chelsea, Man United & Leeds vs Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Atletico, Deportivo La Coruña).

In short, its not Liverpool's job to maintain the competitiveness of the teams they play against, it is the Premier League's duty to guard the competitiveness of the league. Still think its a bad and quite grubby idea.

 

[Unicron]

I think Macintosh's larger point is that Liverpool fans have always been big on the ethos of the club (and how "special" the club itself is because of that) and some of the fans who messaged him saying that Ayres was in the right seemed to be leaving all that behind, I do think he was a bit silly in the extremes that he went to. Someone said that people criticising the deal would only understand if they knew the pain of seeing their club nearly going to the wall which is utter bullshit, under H&G Liverpool were never in a million years in danger of going out of business, the worst case scenario for a club of Liverpool's stature is that they'd have had to sell all their good players and drop down a couple of divisions for a while. Football clubs hardly ever go out of business, look at a basket case like Portsmouth, they're still plugging away, or the gigantic fuck up Ridsdale made at Leeds.

Its a logical bargaining position for Liverpool to take up and surely they must be aware that it is unlikely to pass given that 14 of clubs would almost certainly suffer from it and so then not vote for it, however they are only looking after their own interest, which is surely their prerogative in an open market. The hand-wringing, Shankly-quoting and ad hominem attacks from Iain Macintosh on twitter I found highly annoying all the same. Fucking ludicrous pretending the business of football is in anyway socialist. For that to happen there would need to be UEFA-wide collective bargaining, stringent financial rules, salary caps, etc and dare the players to run off and play for Anzhi Makaklaklak and El Ain, etc rather than Bayern, Real, United, Barcelona, Inter, etc. Football is just symptomatic of society in general though, not apart from it. And as such we should just ask Germany to run it for everyone.

As for the competitiveness of the league: United have won it 13 years of the last 20, 4 of the last 5. Spanish football has always been historically less competitive given that Real Madrid were an established football superpower before such a thing existed in England. They have had far few winners historically than the English league. In the last 20 years, they have had the same amount of league winners as England in the same time period. (Arsenal, Blackburn, Chelsea, Man United & Leeds vs Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Atletico, Deportivo La Coruña).

In short, its not Liverpool's job to maintain the competitiveness of the teams they play against, it is the Premier League's duty to guard the competitiveness of the league. Still think its a bad and quite grubby idea.

 

[washingcattle]

In short, its not Liverpool's job to maintain the competitiveness of the teams they play against, it is the Premier League's duty to guard the competitiveness of the league.

You mean by actually forcing clubs to adhere to the fiancial fair play rules ? outlawing the likes of Abramovic and the Saudi owners spending ridiculous amounts ? punishing clubs who continue to operate with enormous debts ? Thereby leveling the playing fields for all clubs in the league ?

is that what you mean ?

 

[ratmonkey]

You mean by actually forcing clubs to adhere to the fiancial fair play rules ? outlawing the likes of Abramovic and the Saudi owners spending ridiculous amounts ? punishing clubs who continue to operate with enormous debts ? Thereby leveling the playing fields for all clubs in the league ?

is that what you mean ?

Financial fair play isn't going to level any playing fields. The most it'll do is keep them from getting any more uneven.