meltbannana (1 Viewer)

[treelo]

Re: this thread has stopped being about: meltbannana

Of course it would be better to have industry pay millions for the privilage of having their waste disposed of, but if that happened, people would still be throwing out all kinds of stuff that can be recycled.

refer to earlier point about what happens to stuff you put in the green bins. - ie fuck all. tiny percentage shipped overseas and the rest dumped. doesn't mean people shouldn't recycle, it means that until the government provide proper recycling facilities (instead of burying and burning everything) there's no point blaming the problem on householders.
'the polluter pays' idea has no significant implications for the bosses of industry. think of the words FAT and CATS. they can do what they want.

My point is that if people realise that they don't have to pay the bin tax if they recycle all of their waste and also to buy stuff with less packaging, then eventually this change in attitude will be reflected by industries, seeing as these same people will be working there.
.

total bullshit.
a) the tax has to be paid whether you reduce/reuse/recycle or not. this is the complaint. do the words DOUBLE and TAXATION ring any bells? maybe not in your neck of the proverbial woods.

b) what are you talking about - "this change in attitude will be reflected by industries, seeing as these same people will be working there"? did you read that sentence while you were writing? you didn't sleep through the revolution oly, industry controllers still don't give two shags about the workers 'attitudes'.

 

[Cormcolash]

I support the bin-tax protests because Sinn Fein support them.

 

[the strange guy]

Re: this thread has stopped being about: meltbannana

total bullshit.
a) the tax has to be paid whether you reduce/reuse/recycle or not. this is the complaint. do the words DOUBLE and TAXATION ring any bells? maybe not in your neck of the proverbial woods.

DOUBLE TAXATION means fuck all to you because you don't pay tax.

b) what are you talking about - "this change in attitude will be reflected by industries, seeing as these same people will be working there"? did you read that sentence while you were writing? you didn't sleep through the revolution oly, industry controllers still don't give two shags about the workers 'attitudes'.

I meant people working in the industry, bosses, managers, and line workers.

This whole subject is just annoying. It's a classic symptom of what happens when our first-world luxuries are taken away. Try living in an Indian shanty town, Brazillian favella or a halting site and see how far you get. People are putting blood sweat and tears into getting their rubbish taken away for free, and if some gets recycled, that's a bonus. I agree that the recycling facilities here are nothing compared to places like Germany, but isn't that what you should be fighting for instead of the tax? I just can't get my head around people getting so worked up about something like this when they have no intention of paying tax fullstop; double taxation is a ridiculous phrase to be bandying about, especially as these are usually the same people who look down on people who work 40+ hours a week and *have* to pay tax. If these people are as anarchist as they like to think, why fight for the government to do something for -them- instead of just living their lives as best as they can without the government?

 

[Ex-User (250)]

people should pay to have their waste treated, it's only fair. but in the same breath, people shouldn't elect corrupt politicians who impose unfairly high rates of tax on what we earn. you get the second bit right, and when government departments/agencies are run properly and not pissed on by civil servants who take the utter piss for the most part (i'm sorry if that's a sweeping statement, but anyone i know who's a civil servant, completely abuses the freedom their jobs afford them in every respect - this costs the irish tax payer millions every year), the government won't need so much tax from our pay and then people won't mind paying waste tax because it's fair. you shit on the ground, it's down to you to clean it up... or you should pay someone else to clean it up. it doesn't just magically disappear.

someone may have already made a similar point, there was too much for me to read.

 

[treelo]

Re: this thread has stopped being about: meltbannana

i going to break this up because each piece of bullshit needs to be tackled seperately...

DOUBLE TAXATION means fuck all to you because you don't pay tax.

and where would you get information like that? your finely honed instinct at work again? since september i've been in college, my only current income being a djing job. right now, no i don't pay tax, because i don't earn enough money. otherwise, i've been working and paying tax in a string of shit jobs since i was 17. me not working doesn't mean they stop charging me for collecting my trash.
they took a fat cut from my paycheck every month i worked to pay for courts, prisons, police, surveillence, government jets and a million other things i hate. they're not getting this. i'm not paying for things they don't provide anymore. i'm putting myself through college so i can end up with more than what they're offering.

This whole subject is just annoying. It's a classic symptom of what happens when our first-world luxuries are taken away. Try living in an Indian shanty town, Brazillian favella or a halting site and see how far you get.

one issue doesn't cancel out another, it's just what's higher or lower on the fuck-upness scale. i have friends who lived on halting sites or the side of the road for years, it's a different set of circumstances entirely. you're purposely confusing the issue because you haven't a fucking clue what you're talking about. try working with TASS or TVG or Outreach and then go shoot your mouth off.

People are putting blood sweat and tears into getting their rubbish taken away for free, and if some gets recycled, that's a bonus. I agree that the recycling facilities here are nothing compared to places like Germany, but isn't that what you should be fighting for instead of the tax?

i haven't spoken to anyone involved in the campaign who expects it to be a totally free service. and again i have to say, fighting for one thing doesn't mean ignoring the other. i'm involved in the anti-incinerator campaign both in cork and back home. cork corporation are producing an educational video for schools (promoting recycling and composting) that i devised and scripted. this isn't some bandwagon that lifestylers have jumped on, people have been working on this for years - the first protests back where i'm from were at the beginning of 2000.

I just can't get my head around people getting so worked up about something like this when they have no intention of paying tax fullstop; double taxation is a ridiculous phrase to be bandying about, especially as these are usually the same people who look down on people who work 40+ hours a week and *have* to pay tax.

what the fuck are you basing that on? the entire campaign is driven by people who work 40+ hours a week and pay their taxes. the trucks aren't blocked by a load of punks whose parents pay their rent, they're blocked by people who are sick of working their arses off and getting shat on in return. progressive taxation (the more you earn the more you pay) has gone down and down, while taxes like this have shot up. you've had absolutely no involvment with this campaign yet you, as always, are more than willing to spout a load of blind criticisms without having any knowledge of what's going on.

 

[the strange guy]

Re: this thread has stopped being about: meltbannana

Regarding tax, I was talking about right now and for the time you are in college, you aren't paying tax. You should get a waiver too, so I wouldn't worry too much about you paying it.

As regards travellers who don't get their rubbish taken away, what does you having friends who live on halting sites got to do with anything? My point is that no one gave a fuck that their refuse isn't collected, but as soon as their plonked in the same situation, they're up in arms. As for the point that I should work with a charitable organisation, I've worked in one before, but not with Travellers. Don't worry, I'll just tell them I know you and that you're friends with some.

'You should work for these people if you care so much!'
How many times have people heard that off their parents?

As for what I said about people who look down on the wage-slaves, I was referring to the 'anarchists' who are against the bin tax and not regular people who protest. I feel if you believe that the human race is better off without being governed, then you shouldn't campaign for a government to clean up after you.

My original point (somewhere back in this thread) was that some people were getting huffy when I didn't turn up at a bin protest. They didn't like the way I thought about the situation. They thought that because I believe in certain things, that this would be a no-brainer. Why does the fact that I am not emphatically against the bin-tax bother you so much? As I've said, there are plenty more important things to worry about. Enjoy living in the first-world and be thankful for the little luxuries around you that you don't even notice.

 

[the strange guy]

Re: this thread has stopped being about: meltbannana

I would have thought there'd be more people here with an opinion. Are you all sitting on the fence again?

 

[the strange guy]

it wasn't till sandy dragged me to the bin tax talk at the last grassroots that i got some kind of understanding of the situation.

this isn't some bandwagon that lifestylers have jumped on... the first protests back where i'm from were at the beginning of 2000.

Classic.
So why did it take you three years to 'not jump the bandwagon'? It was a good way of giving an impression you've been at this for ages, but no cigar.

 

[nofunchee]

Re: this thread has stopped being about: meltbannana

I would have thought there'd be more people here with an opinion. Are you all sitting on the fence again?

yeah, melt banana were really good.

 

[nooleen]

Re: this thread has stopped being about: meltbannana

yeah, melt banana were really good.

how would you know, you were up in the VIP lounge feasting on cristal and cucumber sandwiches with the crusts cut off. knifed, kings of bling

 

[W.]

Classic.
So why did it take you three years to 'not jump the bandwagon'? It was a good way of giving an impression you've been at this for ages, but no cigar.

Oly, seriously, what are you doing?

 

[the strange guy]

What does it look like?

 

[W.]

being a bully?

 

[niallmc]

people should pay to have their waste treated, it's only fair. but in the same breath, people shouldn't elect corrupt politicians who impose unfairly high rates of tax on what we earn. you get the second bit right, and when government departments/agencies are run properly and not pissed on by civil servants who take the utter piss for the most part (i'm sorry if that's a sweeping statement, but anyone i know who's a civil servant, completely abuses the freedom their jobs afford them in every respect - this costs the irish tax payer millions every year), the government won't need so much tax from our pay and then people won't mind paying waste tax because it's fair. you shit on the ground, it's down to you to clean it up... or you should pay someone else to clean it up. it doesn't just magically disappear.

someone may have already made a similar point, there was too much for me to read.

no hag we shit in a bowl, we will have to pay for the water that flushes it pretty soon.
Should we have to pay for litter bins on the streets?
Do we pay unfairly high rates of tax?
I'm a civil servant and like most workers I take the piss when I can.

 

[the strange guy]

being a bully?

Jesus, you still in a huff over the 'Shannon Map (for those who give a fuck)' thing? Bullying and pointing out someone is being hypocritical and trying to present a false image of themselves are two very different things.

 

[spuded]

mm jesus cant still believe this argument is goin on, people here make these vast generalisations and then hold that word as law, okay say in regards to the thing about private wastecollectors, my da drives a lorry for thornton recycling, they used to only do industrial waste, now they collct household. In ballyfrmot they have a plant that recycles up to 80% of the material they get, so why then do people have a problem wiht private collectors? Is it yet again another fuckin stupid 'anarcho cliche', always assuming privatisation is a bad thing. okay it might not be perfect but thorntons are doing even a little better than the government, yeah for a huge profit but overall its the environment that matters not some bunch of kids with anti-privatisation ideals.

I also find it funny to see all those people who are against privatisation being more than happy to go to private schools, privat colleges and when sick go to a private ward in a hospital. mmm irony, it smacks of bullshit.

 

[the strange guy]

Leave them to their poorly conceived ideals and attempts to conjure up fictional self-portraits.

Remember kids, if you can mask up at the protest, it must be a cause worth fighting for.

 

[W.]

mm jesus cant still believe this argument is goin on, people here make these vast generalisations and then hold that word as law,

this is also a vast generalisation.

okay say in regards to the thing about private wastecollectors, my da drives a lorry for thornton recycling, they used to only do industrial waste, now they collct household. In ballyfrmot they have a plant that recycles up to 80% of the material they get, so why then do people have a problem wiht private collectors? Is it yet again another fuckin stupid 'anarcho cliche', always assuming privatisation is a bad thing. okay it might not be perfect but thorntons are doing even a little better than the government, yeah for a huge profit but overall its the environment that matters not some bunch of kids with anti-privatisation ideals.

People should not have to pay for these services full stop. It's about being a kid with an "anti-privatisation" ideal, i'm against capitalism (and capitalist led globalisation) and a major part of that these days is the push to privatise all public services.

I also find it funny to see all those people who are against privatisation being more than happy to go to private schools, privat colleges and when sick go to a private ward in a hospital. mmm irony, it smacks of bullshit.

Who?

 

[subbuteo !]

yeah for a huge profit but overall its the environment that matters not some bunch of kids with anti-privatisation ideals.
QUOTE]

i don't think you'll find to many of these kids at the depots at 5 in the morning(nor me)
the problem with the privatisation is that unlike the councils that are some what answerable to the pepole these companies are not,what uasally follows is that any waviers disapear and increased payments every year like in sligo where you have pensioner widows expected to pay E700 a year which will probably go up again next year. now for you the enviroment might be more improtant,but for people on low income this can cause major problems.that doesn't mean people don't care about the enviroment maybe just more intrested in keeping above the water.

 

[the strange guy]

I think ed's point regarding privatisation is that seeing as the punk scene is mostly made up of well off middle class kids, they are more likely to have enjoyed the benefits of privatisation than, say, the rest of the entire population.
I doubt he was trying to say that everything would be better privatised, but more that a privatised recycling service is a good thing, as their existance depends on recycling the waste they pick up, and not just dump it, like the council.