shell sink fishing boat with crew on board. (1 Viewer)

Yeah it's probably a shit deal. We probably could have done better.

So what?

Every single argument I hear from the Shell to Sea side when I look into it turns out to be bullshit.

The handful of locals who oppose this have exhausted every legal recourse and yet still won't shut the fuck up. The largest construction project in the state which would earn the state hundreds of millions (at a time when it's sorely needed) is being held up by a shower of hysterical pricks, who's parents probably got all worked up abut the dangers of rural electrification.

While it's nice to view this as brave locals standing up to nasty oppressive Shell (and easy too, since Shell are pricks), I don't buy it.

The shitty part of the deal may actually come much later. After a quick look into Shell's legal history it seems that they are / have been involved in a lot of conflicts, even with Governments that made what were presumably similar deals to the one they made with the Irish Government.

OECD Guidelines Case Update: Argentine and Dutch Governments accept case against Shell

11 09 2008 - CEDHA


The Dutch and Argentine governments jointly admitted a complaint (called a Specific Instance) presented against Shell Argentina and Shell International for alleged violations of the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises at their largest Latin American refinery facilities located in Buenos Aires.

Shell’s Argentine refinery was ordered “closed” back in September of 2007, due to a long list of violations of environmental safety codes, permits, as well as infraganti petrol contamination observed during routine inspections over a 13 day period, by the Argentine Environment and Sustainable Development Secretariat, the SAYDS.[1]
Local communities welcomed the action of the SAYDS against Shell complaining for decades over the environmental catastrophe faced by residents in the neighborhood adjacent to the refinery and other industry. Local environmental groups, including Inpade and Friends of the Earth Argentina capitalized on the government closure of the refinery and in May of this year,[2] took the Shell case to the OECD for violations of social and environmental norms established to promote greater corporate accountability amongst multinational enterprises.
The Dutch and Argentine National Contact Points (the government offices), charged with ensuring that States promote corporate compliance of the OECD Guidelines, yesterday met with complainants and signed a formal response in which they jointly state,
“the complaint presented by Inpade and Friend of the Earth against the
multinational Shell, complies with the necessary formal requirements
for the presentation of complaints over possible violations of the OECD
Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises, and is pertinent to both National
Contact Points, considering that the arguments presented are largely
grounded on the precautionary measures already taken by the National
Environmental Authority against [Shell’s] contamination and its effects.”


more here: http://oecdwatch.org/news-en/oecd-g...nts-accept-case-against-shell?set_language=en


Russians hire British legal firm for Sakhalin case



The Guardian, Friday 15 December 2006



The British lawyer who represented Greenpeace in the battle with Shell over the disposal of the Brent Spar oil platform has been hired by Russia to prepare a case against the Anglo-Dutch oil company over problems at its development project on Sakhalin island off Siberia.
Mark Stephens, partner at Finer Stephens Innocent, said he expected court proceedings in spring although he would not say whether that would be in London, New York or Moscow.
The moves emerged amid another twist to the Sakhalin story yesterday with the environmental official dubbed a "Kremlin attack dog" for his verbal assaults on Shell's environmental records facing disciplinary proceedings.


more here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/dec/15/oilandpetrol.news


and there's even a wikipedia site called "

Royal Dutch Shell safety concerns"



Health and Safety Executive partially uphold claims about Shell safety

On 8 November 2007, BBC News reported that “The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has partially upheld claims that Shell was not doing enough to ensure safety offshore” and that Shell has taken action to address the matters. The article said that the offshore unions Unite Amicus and OILC had asked the HSE to investigate claims from their members which “focused” on manning levels and the attitude of platform management. The article went on to say: “The investigation concluded that aspects of the complaint were justified”. Graham Tran, an official of the Unite Amicus Union was quoted as saying he believed Shell should leave the North Sea as it has “no credibility”. Shell said the company was fully co-operating with the HSE and that it continues to keep its staff and the HSE informed.
Under the headline “More safety breaches found on Shell's North Sea rigs”, The Guardian newspaper reported on the same day, 8 November 2007, that “Shell has once again been rapped over the knuckles by the Health and Safety Executive for safety problems on its North Sea platforms despite pledges from chief executive Jeroen van der Veer that he was determined to change the culture after problems in the past”. The HSE confirmed that it had upheld complaints about staff levels and operational procedures on five platforms, including Cormorant Alpha and Dunlin Alpha, and asked Shell to take immediate action. The article went on to say: “Shell, which earned £1.5m an hour last year, has been through a torrid time over North Sea safety since one of its own most experienced inspectors, Bill Campbell, blew the whistle on his employer claiming that safety procedures were being repeatedly ignored on some platforms.” Shell said it would not comment “in-depth” on the HSE statement saying that an investigation was continuing. Shell pledged to fully co-operate with the HSE and keep Shell staff informed. The article ended with forthright comments attributed to Gran Tran of the Unite Union expressing fears for the ongoing safety of the workforce on the platforms.
On 22 November 2007, the Guardian newspaper published a further article, this time under the headline: “More than half of North Sea oil rigs fail safety checks”. It stated that “The safety regime at Britain's North Sea oil operators was condemned yesterday in a report by the Health and Safety Executive.” According to the HSE report, which was based on a study covering nearly 100 North Sea rigs and platforms, inspections had revealed almost 60% had problems that oil companies should have addressed. The article said “Shell is one of those that has been handed a large number of HSE ‘improvement notices’ in recent years and been criticised by its own workforce, although the group itself denies that safety is not top of its agenda.” The HSE report was also covered in a Daily Telegraph article published on 23 November 2007, headlined: “HSE sounds alarm over rigs”

more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...d_safety_chiefs_to_summit_as_criticisms_mount
 
Sure, every legal recourse has been eshausted, but people there still don't want the pipe line, it's not just the safety aspect of course though...

Meh, maybe they should just give up... just surrender... ROLL OVER AND LET SHELL FUCK THEM IN THE ASS

I guess the question then is does the individual get a veto above the wishes of the majority.

There has been mediation by Advantia and by Cassels, both times the protesters have been accommodated. First by a reduction in the pipe pressure second by a move in the route.

Do you still get get a veto if after all that you don't like the answer?
 
I guess the question then is does the individual get a veto above the wishes of the majority.

There has been mediation by Advantia and by Cassels, both times the protesters have been accommodated. First by a reduction in the pipe pressure second by a move in the route.

Do you still get get a veto if after all that you don't like the answer?


Oh shit I didn't realise that you had already gone around the entire country asking everyone what they wanted in Rossport... I must look like a right fool now!
 
I guess the question then is does the individual get a veto above the wishes of the majority.

People were never asked about the Shell situation in the first place. There hasn't been a referendum on it, nothing. It's all been forced through by the government.
The majority have not expressed their wishes on the matter, and if a referendum were to take place, it is likely as with recent votes that only about 50% of people would actually vote, thereby ensuring that a majority still would not make any decision. To imply that the majority of people in Ireland want Shell to go ahead is ludicrous, as there is absolutely no evidence for or against such an implication.
 
Do you still get get a veto if after all that you don't like the answer?

not wanting to put words in punx mouths but I am certain that the problem for lots of people is that Shell are involved. The idea that they can profit even more from Ireland is galling.

so reducing the question down to an individual fisherman is changing the nature of the debate and underestimates the importance of the issue.
 
People were never asked about the Shell situation in the first place. There hasn't been a referendum on it, nothing. It's all been forced through by the government.
The majority have not expressed their wishes on the matter, and if a referendum were to take place, it is likely as with recent votes that only about 50% of people would actually vote, thereby ensuring that a majority still would not make any decision. To imply that the majority of people in Ireland want Shell to go ahead is ludicrous, as there is absolutely no evidence for or against such an implication.

There has been a few Rossport people stood for the Dail - how did they do?
The only TD to support you lost his seat!
How many candidates did this great grassroots campaign put up in the recent local and EU elections?
 
where are you pulling this majority shit from?

New survey says majority back Shell’s return to Bellanboy

Áine Ryan

A NEW survey by Shell has revealed 70 per cent support among the local community in north Mayo for the recommencement of the Corrib gas project.

The telephone survey, carried out in early September by leading market research company, Millward Brown IMS, also concludes that 79 per cent of respondents believe that Shell has made an effort to listen to the wishes of the local community since the release of the Rossport Five.
When respondents were asked: “If Shell cannot process the gas offshore - that is - out at sea - which one of these two options do you think is preferable? The ratio was:‘Process onshore at Bellanaboy’ (65%), or ‘Do nothing and leave the gas untouched’ (35%).
 
There has been a few Rossport people stood for the Dail - how did they do?
The only TD to support you lost his seat!
How many candidates did this great grassroots campaign put up in the recent local and EU elections?

I'm pretty sure they are fucked off enough with "democracy" not to bother at this stage.
 
New survey says majority back Shell’s return to Bellanboy

Áine Ryan

A NEW survey by Shell has revealed 70 per cent support among the local community in north Mayo for the recommencement of the Corrib gas project.

The telephone survey, carried out in early September by leading market research company, Millward Brown IMS, also concludes that 79 per cent of respondents believe that Shell has made an effort to listen to the wishes of the local community since the release of the Rossport Five.
When respondents were asked: “If Shell cannot process the gas offshore - that is - out at sea - which one of these two options do you think is preferable? The ratio was:‘Process onshore at Bellanaboy’ (65%), or ‘Do nothing and leave the gas untouched’ (35%).

Millward Brown IMS can't really be considered credible here as Shell is one of their paying clients and has complete ownership of the survey, (including which questions are asked and how they were asked and also, which segments of the population were asked - IMS have been doing this for years and I'm sure they have a huge list of profiles ready to bbe used for custyomer polls) can they? From their website:
What we do

At Millward Brown IMS our purpose is to help our clients build better, more profitable brands and services. We work in close partnership for their success and have many client relationships stretching back several years - some even back to our founding in 1963 as Irish Marketing Surveys. Our research-based consultancy provides our clients not just with research findings relevant to the business issues at hand but also with insights and recommendations based on our in-depth knowledge of their business and the Irish market. A significant contributor to our success has been our ability to develop trusted advisor status with our key clients.

http://www.imsl.ie/what-we-do/
 
where are you pulling this majority shit from?


well obviously if communities are bitterly divided, neighbours hating neighbours, and loads of random protestors setting up camp in your village, then people will say its not good for the community. a better question would have been: do you think the corrib gas project should go ahead?
 
more on corrib gas opinion polls:

2. There exists much support for the project in the local community
"Families divided, friends estranged, neighbour turned against neighbour." [Claire Murphy, RTE Primetime 23/11/06]
While a TG4 poll conducted in September 2006 revealed that 6 out of 10 people in Mayo want the terminal located at sea, and only 15 people out of 2,500 Erris homes disagreed with Shell to Sea, [15] a more recent poll conducted by Red C (for RTE and the Irish Independent) has been hailed as contradictory by the dominant media, thus casting doubt on one of Shell to Sea's main arguments, the idea that the local community is behind them.
In actuality the poll revealed two very different viewpoints. On the one hand those polled felt the protestors are "an intimidating presence" being manipulated by outside forces," and on the other hand they felt they "are just doing what I would do" and "are justified in their opposition." The first, a result of the heavily corporate and state influenced media reporting and the second, influenced by the general public's healthy scepticism and democratic idealism. The acute variance of these views goes some way towards highlighting the media's power in shaping opinion.
Ciaran Byrne wrote in The Irish Independent under the headline 'The People's Verdict', [The Irish Independent 24/11/06] [16] "the vast majority of people (70pc) in the county want the construction of the Corrib gas pipeline to continue without the work being impeded," strangely enough the results of the poll did not reflect this support. The first question answered by the Independent was: "should the project go ahead as planned or not?" The answer to the question was not as emphatic as the article first suggested, with only a slight majority of those polled in favour. Interestingly this was reported very differently by RTE's Primetime, who managed to explain the full context. The complete question begins: "If it were NOT an option to change the current proposal at all, do you think the project should go ahead as planned or not go ahead at all?" [17] A completely different proposition.
The remainder of the results are not too dissimilar to those found by the TG4 poll, though there has been a small drop in support. However, one cannot underestimate the toll which time and despondency must surely have taken on the communities' spirit.





http://www.mediabite.org/article_Gas--Gaeilge-and-the-Media_84402980.html
 
There has been a few Rossport people stood for the Dail - how did they do?

think you'll find that one issue people often do badly..but sure there are exceptions.


The only TD to support you lost his seat!
just because he lost his seat it doesnt mean people don't support shell to sea
people could have voted for or not for him for many reasons.

How many candidates did this great grassroots campaign put up in the recent local and EU elections?
is this a marker for how sucessfull a grass roots campaign is personally i wouldn't have thought so and as i said one issue people often do badly.
 
Perhaps.
I'd say though if there was as much local support as I'm being led to beileve then a local candidate would have done well, even if, as you say, single issue candidates don't do well in the Dail or EP.
 
My two cents:

I think the issue for me will come down to exactly what happened to O'Donnell and his boat.

I don't have a problem with the pipe in principle neither do I have a problem with refining ashore. I don't believe the setup is dangerous and I think any legitimate concerns the protesters had have been addressed. I don't have a problem with the nature of the deal with shell - yes it's attractive but I see the necessity of it. Based on all that I say - Shell to Shore and jail 5 more (and if the Gardai want to crack some crusty skull in the process I wouldn't get too worked up abut it).

However:

The O'Donnnell issue is, for me, different and seperate. He is not some dilletant riot tourist or whinging luddite. I would be very uncomfortable with the notion of a company like Shell geting such a favourable deal from this state if it turned out they were at the same time waging war on one of it's citizens.
 
Some of the stuff said so far is a massive load of shit. Mostly the stuff trying to justify the shameful going on of Shell.
 
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